I wanted to start a thread for MBA discussion.

I've thought about applying to MBA programs just about every year since I got out of undergrad but am finally getting around to it this year. It's never quite been the right time before.

I'm probably applying to the top 10 plus UTexas which will be in-state for me. I'm also considering doing something semi-crazy like going to Acton instead. It's a 1 year MBA in entrepreneurship and free-ish.

If anyone is interested in critiquing each other's essays, PM me.

Just curious, but why are you looking to get an MBA? Are you looking for a career change?

i mean, i play poker right now, so yes, i'm looking for a career change. I'd like to do something that has a bit more social utility.

Oh okay, for some reason I thought you did something else.. my mistake.

Not to take a crack at MBA's or anything, but an MBA isn't exactly the degree that I equate with social utility. Maybe something like a MPP or an MPH if you want social utility.

yeah, i kinda opened myself up to that one. As a Taleb fan, I agree that alot of MBAs are pretty worthless. On the other hand -- and hopefully without moralizing -- relatively speaking I'd take MBAs over poker pros by a long shot.

It's still very early in the admissions cycle. Maybe no one else here is thinking about applying, I just figured I'd ask.

also, just to be clear, i'm not really looking for advice as to whether to get an MBA. i'm willing to answer questions, but unless someone offers me a job I can't turn down, I'm pretty likely to head to bschool.

Ya a bit early for 2011. I did my 2010 app just a month ago for late consideration.

I'm in Canada, and the B-Schools here put a lot of stock in having full-time work experience, and examine your resume. Is it the same down south? If so, what is your strategy, considering you are a poker pro?

I'm also considering applying to acton but will be just graduating this coming spring. I was put off by the fact that supposedly the average amount of work experience for a candidate there is seven years....I know this is semi standard for most MBAs, but I feel Acton would give less credence to work experience given how liberal and unique the institution's reputation is. Still making up my mind though.

In the US, applying early is a pretty significant advantage. Applying as late as March could be a massive disadvantage. I'm hoping to get all my applications out the door before October 31, which probably puts me in the first 5% of applicants. In my opinion, it's worth it.

as for my resume...yeah, we'll see. i worked for SkaddenArps for awhile while in college and after. i was a consultant for a year and some at a top25 Vault firm. i did a webstart up 5 years ago (but obv didn't get rich on it). i'm in the CFA and CAIA programs. i moved to Buenos Aires a few years ago without knowing a word of Spanish and am now fluent, which supposedly bschools are into. I'm trying to get a web venture off the ground now, and have a few other projects as well, including a blog pretty well read within its niche.

So, I'll mention poker, but in an entrepreneurial context. Until I moved to BA, I never called myself a poker pro, even though it was my primary source of income most of the time.

My GMAT is in the mid 700s, but given resume and poker, I think I could have some pretty wide variance from admissions committees.

i'm pretty sure I read on Acton's site that they commit to taking a maximum of 5 students right out of undergrad. On the other hand, class size is only 30-40 each year, so you probably have a better chance at Acton than other places.

I do know one person from Rice who went straight to Sloan (MIT's MBA program) but it's pretty rare to get into a top MBA program out of undergrad. Also, while other MBA schools might have less than 7 years, anything less than 2 is probably a huge disadvantage at most programs.

I'm looking to get into an MBA program in 2011 as well. I just finished up my CPA and am looking to take the GMAT now (after I prepare). I'm probably staying in Indiana at Purdue or IU in a part-time program though

IMO, that sounds like a really good applicant profile, as long as your essays tie up with a strong message of why b-school and how you'll leverage it into the future.

thanks, that's really encouraging and kind of you to say. essays haven't come that easy so far. i'm not sure i have a clear career goal (and also i think it's somewhat dishonest to have explicit goals, since everyone changes in bschool and it's heavily dependent on how oncampus interviews go). If I could choose anything, I'd probably like to be a partner in a venture capital fund, especially with a focus on latin america. not too many of those around though. being an entrepreneur is great, but pretty sick variance*. i'm not uberquant, but working for a l/s hedgefund or working at private equity buyout firm sound fun too. and of course there's always the asset management track that CFA/CAIA give me. i do love Texas as well, but lack knowledge of the energy industry outside of what you get from reading The Prize.

so yeah. describing honestly how bschool takes me from the present to the clubby world of VC is a little bit of a challenge. but that's why i'm starting early.


* I recall reading an academic study that most of the returns accrue to the VC guys, not to the entrepreneurs. So on a risk-adjusted basis, it's pretty clear that being a VC is smarter than being an entrepreneur.

Also planning on applying for 2011.

Applied last year but kinda with half-effort because I was switching jobs. Having recommendations from an old job probably didn't help. Didn't get into my top choice (Yale) so I'm going to reapply and then also apply to several other schools this year. Going to be targeting schools in the 10-20 range, maybe one or two of top 10. Probably going to use one of those application consultants to help me out, but I'm down for reading essays and whatnot.

Yale is on my list. Historically their MBA program hasn't been what you'd expect given the brand name, but it's been rising in the ranks rapidly and they are bringing in a new dean with an good fundraising trackrecord. and i think they're actually 10th or so in USNews this year.

what's your timeline on having an essay done? i'm willing to trade or have a look in advance.

a friend of mine is at Kellogg and hired an app consultant. they are pretty pricey. he says that the main thing she did was get him to apply to more schools.

all of my recommenders want me to write a draft letter of rec for them. i don't blame them, but it adds another few essays to my pile. why do we still do letters of rec in this day and age? it sucks for me too because i don't have alot of options as i've mostly been my own boss. i can't reach back to Skadden, so it's basically folks I worked with in consulting...

Already started my drafts for a few essays; probably going to apply to 2-3 schools in round 1, so for those schools I'm planning on having rough drafts done by like mid or late August. That gives me about five weeks to edit and revise them before they are due in mid-October. We are actually really early in the application process still---several schools don't even have the apps up yet--so I'm not stressing over essays for a few more weeks.

And for the recommendations--yeah, they are pretty ridiculous in some sense. Everyone who has a normal job is going to have excellent recommendations, so lucky for you I've heard from many people not much emphasis is put on recommendation letters.
Kinda have mixed feelings about drafting--more often then not, you end up writing your own recommendation letter from what I've been told.

The more down average Joe moron is on MBA, the more to apply just supply/demand wise..
Only a "fool" is going at this point.."Today's fool" is "tomarrow's genius"
Just do it. Don't talk yourself out.

is it just me, or does this make no sense?

I plan on applying this fall to Booth, Kellogg, Columbia, NYU, and maybe Haas or UCLA. Planning a career change from strategy/management consulting to investment management, hedge funds in particular. Would be interested in a healthy discussion around schools and the application process, but I haven't even touched my essays at this point.

it looks like you're only interested in being in Cali, NYC or Chicago? why kellogg given your career goal?

Yeah thats a good question, I like Kellogg for its emphasis on the "softer" skills, which I regard as my weakness and would like to strengthen. But given my post-MBA goals it is not my first choice in schools. And yeah, right now I would like to be in big cities, Chicago being first preference, although I will certainly move given the right situation.

Btw, a lot of these admission consultants offer free 30-minute consultations over phone. I've done three of them, they are pretty decent, go over your strengths and weaknesses, give suggestions on what to address in the essays and interviews. I would recommend them, especially considering the high price on their regular consulting services.

philly and boston are too small? i'm sorta surprised you don't have stanford on your list. too much of a crapshoot?

my buddy went into kellogg wanting to work for McKinsey but being at kellogg changed his mind into doing brand management. on the other hand, the only other person i know who went to Kellogg went to work for a VC fund afterwards.

unrelated: i'm probably taking the GMAT again. i might only raise my score 20 points, but despite recruiting telling you how much it doesn't matter, I bet if i apply to the top 10 schools, having 20 more points on my GMAT would probably change 1 or 2 admissions decisions.

I've never really liked Stanford. Plus, I think my chances of getting in are real low considering the background of the people they admit. You mentioned your GMAT is mid-700's. You still think its worth it to take it again?

Here's my logic: I got a 740, which is 97th percentile. 750 is 98th percentile and 760+ is 99th percentile. That's above the median GMAT score for any bschool in the world, I think (Stanford 730 median, Wharton/Harvard 720).

However, and I say this cautiously, I think you need to compare against subgroup. I'm an American white male. The top business schools are usually ~33+% international, and I would bet my life worth that the average GMAT score is significantly lower among the non-native speakers. Also, while I'm fairly agnostic about affirmative action, ~20% of the class is US minorities who probably also have significant differences than my subgroup.

The top 10 MBA programs together matriculate 5000-5500 students each year. Approximately 6500 people score 760+ on the GMAT each year (650k people take the test every year), and another 6500 people score 750.

Put all that together and I would argue that the median score for American white males at Harvard/Stanford/Wharton is probably 760. Now, none of this is to overemphasize the GMAT: it's pretty clear that MBA programs value work experience/esasys over raw GMAT. Even so, I would guess that most application reviewers check the GMAT first and then view the application. Given my non-traditional MBA background, I'd like them to view my application through the lens of "99% on his GMAT." Harvard/Stanford/Wharton/similar definitely admit people from my subgroup with sub-700, but I bet the admission rate is quite low.

Like I said, I'm more or less planning on applying to the top 10, so do I think that having a 760 instead of a 740 would change one or two admissions decisions? For any particular school, the process is a crapshoot, but over 10 applications, I think 20 more GMAT points changes at least 2 decisions. That's my speculation.

Have you seen that an MBA is a good transition tool to go from consulting (or IBD in my case) to hedge fund? I'm not sure I've seen evidence of that and would love to hear what you think. What exactly would you focus on - an investment management major, some sort of quantitative study, or what? Thx