There isn't enough money in the discretionary budget to travel. I guess if you skip dinner for a couple months and sell some more home made crafts, you can do anything. But that isn't really my idea of "reasonable". Or apparently you can eventually save enough clipping coupons and hunting fatwallet to buy a Ferrari. In which case this is moot.

Look, let's keep this simple.

I can augment my passive income a lot buying powerbars for $0.88 at my local costco, and shipping them to you for $3.50. How's that. Is that work?

How do people who currently make $30k/year ever afford to travel then? There are many who do it without going into debt.

Also there are many other vacation options for much less money. You don't need a $1200 flight to get away.

It depends a lot on the person too. For the most part I'd prefer to just stay home than travel, without even considering money. Although, I do like an occasional tropical vacation. I might go to Europe someday but really have no desire to do so.

Wrong.

With hitchhiking, sleeping on people's couches and eating at soup kitchens, the world is your oyster.

Sure. I think you'd lose around 8 bucks a bar. But this seems to be in line with your general ideas of finance.

To answer your later post: The claims you make regarding ROI on your investment are loltastic. You claim >4% real return which is laughable. In the US 3% with low variance would be quite high. YoungEcon who's droned on and on, has yet to find a single thing that produces evidence to support his claim (which mirrors yours). He either cuts off time periods at 5 years (Why use such a short time period when we have decades of data?) or uses funds which are ridiculous (high risk). He continually won't come up with even a single example because they don't exist. You need to find a data-snooped outlier to have a chance of being correct.

Beyond that your budget is laughable for numerous points that have been discussed earlier. You seem to be willing to purchase the cheapest of EVERY SINGLE ITEM possible. Its not whether someone would buy something in isolation (Like Shoe's comment about a Honda Fit. I think Fit's are ******ed, but you could get something more workable for slightly more money), but that for every single item you must actively save money by cutting corners, and pinching pennies, which still results in a very slim budget.

Take deferred maintenance on your home for example. You could ask Spex or someone what that costs. Typically its in the thousands a year to maintain a home of that price. I know I've spent more money on my own home doing minor upgrades/repairs. And I've done a sizable amount of work myself (Finishing paint/patching holes/etc).

You clearly live in a fantasy land where people don't have to spend money like adults. This is even making the assumption that no kurtotic event happens which you then busto ldo.

There is actually some decent freeganism stuff where people do this. Usually they're extremely savvy wrt survival skills (like I've done some outdoors stuff, maybe a few hundred nights of camping, but these people blow me away comparatively) and make due trespassing and committing petty crimes.

It is interesting to see what you can do though. Invariably, these things turn out to be just eye opening experiences and the person rejoins society with a better outlook on possessions, freedom, time etc.

No, I pay $0.88, you pay $3.50. 3.50-0.88 = $2.62. So if you buy 365 powerbars I make, what, $956/year? If I ship this to, what, in packs of 90, that would probably cost me around $30/shipment. So we got 956-120 = $836 for doing nothing! Or is that work to go to costco and take this stuff home in my new car?

Basically completely wrong.
Oh, I buy gold-plated funnels and oil pans. Is that what you meant? Or is it the $4,000 car budget that you, [laugh] "refuted?" GTFO

Did you miss that I could buy a Civic (which I guess millions think are "******ed" like you?) and actually get better net value?

Upon further inspection, do I need to by a new refrigerator, table, oven, etc. every 4 years? Does that free up "thousands" to do stuff like general upkeep? Ok, I guess is it does.

Next time, just for you, I will add a "patching holes" budget item.
Again, you have no idea how to manage finances if these stupid points you are bringing up are any indication that living reasonably with $1 million won't work in LV.

The "you" in the thread title has been taken way to literally.

But that is an lol pathetic life. Havn't you been reading this thread?

Awesome. For a litany of reasons.

lol "value"


Nope. But I'll be a large sum of money that any real estate professional worth a damn will amortize deferred maintaince to return a house to like new condition will easily cost >2k a year over a 15 year span. New paint (interior/exterior), roofing, 1-2 AC replacement, water heater replacement (1-2), landscaping, updating, anything that actually breaks. etc. I'm gonna guess you have never owned a home or tracked what it costs to keep one.

Fail at simple math. Excellent. And what did you say about managing finances? Can you just tell me how many powerbars you want, I'll get them for $0.88 and sell them to you for $3.50. I was thinking about a 3 day trip coming up and the $800+ would just about pay for it.
lol resale value not relevant.
So by your own admission I got more than enough to maintain my home. Thanks. Back to the $0.88 powerbars again?

that is lol pathetic

Sure but is there really enough of this for it to make much of a difference? At most we are talking about filling up two or three nights a week.

We are not really talking about keeping quality of life. 99% of the stuff I buy I can easily see people passing on but I haven't been arguing that those are necessary or else we'd blow though the budget in weeks. The stuff we are talking about is stuff like being able to buy a coffee whenever you feel like it without having to think about it. Being able to buy a slice of pizza and a pop.

Yes that is how you can pick out a surgeon on the road -- they drive Fits.

My labour camp seems to be over in an hour or two so I'm going away for the weekend. I'm curious what would you budget for a weekend away?

I actually don't choose -- at least not in any meaningful way. Getting the oil changed is necessary to save off even more expensive repairs and that is what it costs. Sorry not all of us are happy driving cars that can get smoked by a good riding lawnmower.

I need a good laugh so give me an example of a four day long weekend with budget.

No a photographer but I have a friend who travels a lot so enjoys it. I've been to the camera store with him on a few occasions and the stuff isn't cheap. Some of those lens are a few hundred and even over a thousand. Again though you'll just argue that a $100 camera is all you need.

None that I can think of but I've never really been big on hobbies so maybe there is one.

They save up for years so they can. The have a horrible experience because they cut every possible corner to save money.

Lets forget about the $1200 flight. I'm going to MTL for the weekend. So arrive 7-8pm via car (1.5 hour drive) and leave Sunday afternoon. How much do you think a trip like this would cost with reasonable entertainment options?

Depends on the particular activity and how much preparation goes into it. To be competitive at most hobbies requires a lot of time outside of actual competitions, and many alone could cover 20+ hours in week.

Also, if I am particularly good at something such as painting or photography, am I allowed to justify spending a lot of money on these things so long as I know that I can cover my expenses by selling my artwork? I am just trying to gauge where you draw the line at what is work and what isn't. To many, studying chess or math would be work, but to others it is enjoyable. Presumably, you and thremp enjoy lifting weights, but I find it very boring and tedious compared to other forms of exercise.

It seems that what you are trying to define is a job people enjoy. Part of what I find interesting about this is that people seem to think work is the worst possible thing. I prefer not working to working but working isn't that bad. The underlying theme that employment needs to be avoid at all costs no matter how horrible your life is seems very odd. I don't know kind of employment experiences people have had to make them feel this way.

Originally what I was thinking was something like a poker tournament at a local bar. I went a few times and it is purely social and horribly organized which is fine since it is just for fun. Everyone throws in $20 and the prize pool was about $2500. So assuming you are even just moderately decent over a year you should be able to win enough to pay not only your entry fees but also your bar tab. Something like that would be a form of free entertainment. It is once a week. You do when you have nothing else to do Wednesday -- maybe you even go most Wednesdays. Now if we are talking about having the schedule up for every bar poker night and attending them all then that is a job. It might be a job you enjoy but it is still a job.

The problem with this is that 1) We were trying to reach a consensus on whether this is possible for the average person whereas people who even have a hobby that could ever be commercialised are a small minority and 2) Of those who do have a hobby like the ones you've mentioned, a very very small percentage of these are able to make sufficient money from it to cover the (considerable) expenses associated with it.

Not sure what car intelligent people drive, but they typically don't drive a Lamborghini throwing money out the window.
WAG $250/day. But that's just me.
I could choose a lot of things that would "save off even more expense repairs" - if I ever indeed needed them that's another story. BTW, Honda Civics actually go faster than 3 mph. And it would not be wise to drive a lawnmower around town, although it would have some utility, I guess.
Probably not Canada. Although they do have a better view of Niagara Falls.
Not at all. Friend of a friend does weddings and such, and he basically started with nothing and worked his way up. I would now consider him about an 8 on 1-10 scale. His equipment has gotten better commensurate with the income he has received. Call it a "job"; doesn't really matter - he likes what he does. I think his stuff probably cost around $15,000, but I may be way off. He considers himself unemployed.
I guess for people who work, hobbies seem a waste of precious time. For those with time, hobbies probably seem something of great interest. YMMV
I prefer to look at it another way: people choose how they want to use their time. Intelligent people do not sit in a room and stare at walls - they figure out something productive to do and gain some expertise at it. Most likely, they get good enough at it to actually show some financial benefit. There are countless activities that people do on the side - call them "hobbies" if you must - that generate predictable benefit and are found to be (at least somewhat) enjoyable for the principal.

In the end this prize would benefit those who are not so intelligent, because they probably could not do much better anyways on their own. And it would benefit the intelligent as well, because they could use it as a springboard to achieve so much more than they could starting with empty pockets.

You think you can travel to another city, get a room for two nights, eat out all your meals, do something fun and all for $250? Wow.

I don't work. Well I don't work for money. I do some work for free but I refuse to be paid for work. The last paying job I had I was still in university.

I usually travel 3 nights minimum, driving distance. $800 sounds about right. This would not include the higher end resort, but would not be bottom end either. Usually I get some kind of "deal" to get me to go there. I won't pay top dollar unless there is some compelling reason.

How is it a job to have the schedule up for every small poker tournament and play in them when you have nothing else to do?

Was it a job when I had the schedule of Magic: The Gathering tournaments in middle school and went to up to 3 of them a week if I didn't have anything else to do Wednesday/Friday/Saturday night just because I more or less went infinite on them (won enough packs to resell to people to more than cover entry fees)?

I think that's a bad place to draw the line on having a job. If something is 100% optional, it's not a job.

I totally agree with Thremp on this. People should quit making it sound like people who want high incomes are slaves, living deprived lives, etc. Different people have different income levels they deem satisfactory. I totally think someone could make it off $30K-$40K a year, and I've lived off less for the last 5. With that said though, I still want more. I want to wear nice clothes, live in a nice apartment, not worry about how much money I drop on the weekends entertaining myself, saving money, etc. There's nothing wrong with wanting more, just like there's nothing wrong with wanting to have a lot of free time and much less material comfort. These sort of things shouldn't be part of the discussion, since they really have nothing to do with the OP.

The real questions should be: What income levels are realistic for a $1M investment? And what standards of living are doable on this income? The main thing I disagree with Thremp and Henry on is that you can actually afford more than they realize on $20K-$40K a year (and the ROIs, but I'm sick of talking about it).

I also think people need to quit talking about food banks, gov't loopholes, panhandling, and other ridiculous things. Sure, they're feasible strategies, but I think it misses the point of this thread. Furthermore, you should take as given that most people are not willing to do those things, so they shouldn't be mentioned (even if you yourself would do so).

I partially agree with this. People should absolutely strive to be better and have as much as possible, I doubt anyone would actually disagree with that. I think most of the hostility you detect, is more backlash against Thremp's arrogance and Henry's complete disconnect from reality. That being said, I don't agree with anyone who has suggested doing anything related to government assistance/stealing/whatever either.

Any reasonable argument for living on this salary (which millions of people do comfortably everyday) has been immediately dismissed. Would it be a life of luxury? No. And no one is trying to claim that. Could you have a completely happy and fulfilling life? Absolutely. Would you be a poor heathen demised by the rest of society? Hell no.

$30k/year (growing faster than inflation in real $ terms) is more than feasible. Just invest the full million in solid dividend companies that have been proven to be shareholder friendly and currently return on average 3% and are still at minimum fairly valued. The discussion for this really requires another thread as it would be lost here, but the dividends grow much faster than inflation (for example, investing $1M for $30k/year in dividends 10 years ago would provide $45-50k/year in dividends now, and that is not even including stock appreciation).

Also, way overlooked is that all this income would be COMPLETELY TAX FREE. (Although that could change if the Bush tax cuts are allowed to expire -- even if they do your tax rate would probably be 5%).

Before I get flamed by the MORANS: Dividend income is completely tax free if you are in the 15% or less tax bracket (<$34k per year).

Completely agree. We are talking about living a legitimate life here.

What companies are you talkin about?

And what is the tax rate if you're making more than 34 k per year? Say you're making 80-100k a year, what would the tax rates be?