You do realise most people in this world are not tech savy? Bitcoin needs an regulated exchange like a bank for normal people to use, without that its hopeless.

For the people who aren't tech savvy, they can use exactly what you describe - Coinbase, "the regulated exchange like a bank." Beyond that, there are plenty of better options to hold bitcoin than on a wallet with a weak password. dfgg seems capable of understanding how to use a physical token for his bank account, but completely disregards common best practices for bitcoin storage (cold wallets, hardware wallets). Those types of wallets are not going to be brute forced.

I agree with you though. Bitcoin is not even close to where it needs to be for beginners to crypto. I do think Coinbase does a great job on-ramping people, but ultimately, you wouldn't want Coinbase to be the end-point for users

Coinbase are not insured like a bank is. Coinbase is only insured for up to 2% of the total bitcoins deposited. They claim that the rest are kept in a cold storage but there is no guarantee that is true, so keeping funds on there is a complete gamble.

They are insured exactly like a bank for USD balances, but I understand what you're saying; there's no equivalent insurance for crypto. There's no better option though. If you're not interested/capable of being responsible for your own security then you have to trust somebody.

Buy gold ! wait for the bitcoin to crash,

What about the potential of human ransom or kidnapping of persons to extract the information or the direct transfer of crypto from these people?

There already are people making money from holding websites hostage and ransomware on personal computers demanding crypto as payment. What's to stop criminals from taking it a bit further down the line?

You know how much headaches that is? And nobody has yet explained to me why to use bitcoin except for 'zomg inflation is bad!'. And it literally has like a dozen downsides compared to fiat.

So you go through the headaches of cold storage, hardware wallets etc, for what? To avoid 1% of inflation which is not an issue anyway because you can invest money in stocks and bonds. 98% of my net worth is invested in a bunch of stocks. I get like 2% dividend yield alone from that, before capital gains.

You realize that Amazon patented the buy with 1 click button? You realize probably one of the most important reason for Apple's success is it's simplicity in use?

I am starting to go in circles here :/ . Arguing with bitcoin fanatics is like playing wackamole.

BTW here is a list of things you need to do to cold store bitcoins:
https://www.bitcoin.com/guides/setti...bitcoin-wallet

I actually did all this in 2014 or so. Then I realized how ****ing ******edly complicated this all was and for that reason would never catch on, and I immediately got them out again and sold all my bitcoins.

But here goes:

-The first step will be to go to the Bitcoin.com paper wallet tool here.

-Before doing anything else, while on this page you will want to save it locally to your computer. To save a web page to your local machine, press Ctrl-S and save the file as a complete webpage (to your desktop for example).

- After saving, simply close out the open Bitcoin.com paper wallet tool page.

-Then disconnect your computer from the internet

-After disconnecting from the internet, open the saved file (on your desktop). Move your mouse around on the page and/or type some random characters into the text box to create extra entropy (randomness).

-While on the locally saved paper wallet page, while still disconnected from the internet, click on the Print button. Warning: before printing the page, make sure your printer is also offline (not connected to the internet through wifi for example).

-The next step is you want to add bitcoin to the wallet. Just like with any other bitcoin transaction, using a wallet you may have online, scan the public cold storage wallet QR code or copy the address, and send funds to your cold storage.

-When you are ready to spend from your cold storage wallet, you will need to import the private key to a Bitcoin wallet that is online. Any wallet that supports importing private keys will work. For example, if you download the Bitcoin Unlimited wallet (which is a full Bitcoin client) you can import the private key.

To do so, simply follow these steps:

-Open the client and click on Help

-Select the Debug Window and click on the Console tab

-Type in the field “importprivkey <bitcoinprivkey>” (replace <bitcoinprivkey> with your private key and remove quotes)

-Hit enter to import the private key; this will require a rescan of the blockchain which may take a few minutes to sync

-Open the online wallet

-Click on Settings and then click on Addresses

-Click on Import Address

-Copy and paste the cold storage private key and click Import/transfer

-You can safely archive the old address and transfer the funds to your wallet

Those amazon guys were real idiots, instead of patenting the buy with 1 click they should have just patented this SIMPLE 17 step process to safely buy and sell things!!!

Meanwhile my mother types in 'bing search engine' in google to go to her hotmail account.

No one uses paper wallets as cold storage anymore. It's a relic.

Today businesses hsms, and bitcoin armory multisig forks.

End users can purchase hsms, or set up their own airgap computers, and everyone's word library for bip39 is open sourced and you can recover across multiple ham platforms. In fact for most users, cold storage is completely unnecessary now that wallets on iOS and android are so robust.

Seriously please stop talking out of your ass, you look like an idiot to people who actually use and understand the technology. Literally all of your arguments are just tired recycled junk from 2013 that simply aren't relevant anymore.

Data behind cracking deterministic seeds:

https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/com...e_keys_secure/

Most hsms like trezor support a 25th seed that the user can select. you can imagine how difficult now, faced with actual facts, how difficult it would be to "crack" a 25 word seed

So I need to buy a complicated piece of hardware to spend money. And then that can break and I would lose all the money inside.

Or I do this:
https://www.bitcoinarmory.com/tutorials/

And again I need a ****ing tutorial to figure out how to keep my bitcoins safe. The first tutorial video about 'moving files' is already 3 minutes long lol.

All so I can use a less user friendly, slower, just as expensive and more volatile form of currency to make transactions.

All that to avoid 1% inflation.

Hi imbecile.


No you do not. An app on your phone like mycelium and copay generate deterministic seeds using those same libraries.

An hsm is simply hardcoded via boot loader or secure element to never send private keys out of its memory. Hsms are designed such that only signed transactions can be pushed out.

Yes but it is an headache to set it up, just so you can use an inferior form of money that is slower, at least as expensive and more volatile.

And again people lose passwords. You may be a brilliant prodigy that never does something stupid (besides investing in bitcoin of course), but most people forget their passwords at some point, and are not computer savvy at all.

People pay premium for Apple so they don't have to think much. That is how they became one of the most valuable companies in the world. Simplicity sells. Maybe some engineers will use bitcoin safely, but most regular people won't.

You are a moron. There is nothing for you to do to set up such a wallet other than to shake your phone for mycelium and write down 24 words if you feel that you need to backup your wallet. The software is open source.

Please if you actually spent 10 minutes doing any bit of research on your own you wouldn't look like a brain dead monkey

Generally when you start calling people names, it is a sign you lost the argument.

Maybe you read back on this when bitcoin is back at $100 and learn something.

I read all of your arguments.

In 2012

As this thread was titled .. 'How to invest against Bitcoin' let me add some info.

A naked short sell on IGindex .. (a UK public company/spread betting firm), will do the job.

When Bitcoin was $4000 a few wees ago, the bid/ask spread was 10 pips, but, recently, has moved to 20 pips, and, on weekends, its 40 pips.

There is an additional overnight short cash charge, which is about £2 per £1 short.

The margin requirements have been doubled // like they are expecting volatility.

I am not sure, what size orders they will take.

Other spread firms are available.

The bid/ask spread, is a little too high, for me to recommend any spread firm - but, its an option etc.

no...!!
As everything new, it needs time to be adopted.
No need for 3rd parties like standard capitalism, that's kinda the point.

The answer to the subject question seems pretty obvious to me. Find a Forex broker that offers the BTC/USD pair and short it.

Granted, I think that's a terrible idea.

Nothing is simple or intuitive about setting up an airgapped computer for someone who is not into tech. (Let alone being cool with the reasons for needing it).

String crypto on mobile devices is an impending disaster for many users. Some day soon I foresee a giant market sell followed by many people opening up their Jaxx to sell and find someone has done it for them already.


Re OP, This has probably already been said: short GBCT

how's this going for you OP?

if you are a high net worth individual, you can now purchase options on bitcoin (thus btc/usd) that are fully backed 1:1 by usd and bitcoin.

search:

ledgerx

This is going to get bumped a lot in the future as everyone starts to carry bitcoin and use it.

This is all true, and written about by Nick Szabo, the number 1 contender for being the creator. The mental barrier/cost associated. As technology improves this barrier gets less and less. Russia will release the crypto ruble and over time it will replace their digital fiat (ie debit/credit cards). No one will notice because its "back end" technology. And it is an on ramp to bitcoin which requires less mental effort etc.

Difficult to have a reasonable argument tho, that people won't surpass these barriers when the coin has risen 50,000% in 5 years and its market cap is on the heels of the imf SDRs.

Really easy to be ignorant and say bitcoin won't work, until it does.

You can buy a lot of other crypto cyrrencies. You can use to buying crypto exchangers wich you can find on monitoring https://rates.guru/ It's good way to buy crypto with the best rate