It's not illegal. There are no wash sales for crypto either. It's not regulated and thus traditional rules that apply to stocks and securities do not apply to crypto. It's not occurring on American exchanges either(at least not much), where sec etc have jurisdiction.

Technically, wash trading is allowed because it was “regulated.” In the sense of the IRS deeming crypto a property back in 2014.

The wash sale rules are very clear that they only apply to securities or stocks, not property.

Not to mention, wash sales are more targeted at tax loss manipulation and not market manipulation.

Plus, even with the actual rules, the 30 day wait period is nothing in the scheme of things.

15 U.S. Code § 78i - Manipulation of security prices

(a) Transactions relating to purchase or sale of security
It shall be unlawful for any person, directly or indirectly, by the use of the mails or any means or instrumentality of interstate commerce, or of any facility of any national securities exchange, or for any member of a national securities exchange—

(1) For the purpose of creating a false or misleading appearance of active trading in any security other than a government security, or a false or misleading appearance with respect to the market for any such security, (A) to effect any transaction in such security which involves no change in the beneficial ownership thereof,

Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/15/78i


I made that point in my post - how ridiculous it is to claim it's not an illegitimate mark simply because it's not illegal by dint of it occurring on a market that's not regulated yet. And what leads you to believe it's not occurring on American exchanges?

You're conflating the IRS rules on wash trades with the federal securities law against wash trades. Someone doing a wash trade to change their tax basis runs afoul of the IRS rules but wouldn't be considered market manipulation per the securities laws due to the absence of scale and intent.

And once it is regulated, it'll fall under FIRNA's rules as well:

6140. Other Trading Practices

(b) No member shall, for the purpose of creating or inducing a false or misleading appearance of activity in a designated security or creating or inducing a false or misleading appearance with respect to the market in such security:
(1) execute any transaction in such security which involves no change in the beneficial ownership thereof;

Source: https://www.finra.org/rules-guidance...nra-rules/6140

You might want to refer to commodities laws, not securities, for btc wash trading.

Yeah, how are things going for the SEC trying to deem certain cryptos as securities?



They’ve already publicly stated the two largest cryptos absorbing 60% of the market cap as commodities.

The Commodity Exchange Act (CEA)

7 U.S. Code § 6c - Prohibited transactions

It shall be unlawful for any person to offer to enter into, enter into, or confirm the execution of a transaction described in paragraph (2) involving the purchase or sale of any commodity for future delivery (or any option on such a transaction or option on a commodity) or swap if the transaction is used or may be used to—

2) Transaction

A transaction referred to in paragraph (1) is a transaction that—

(A)

(i) is, of the character of, or is commonly known to the trade as, a “wash sale” or “accommodation trade”; or
(ii) is a fictitious sale; or

(B) is used to cause any price to be reported, registered, or recorded that is not a true and bona fide price.

Source: https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/7/6c

Cool. I stand corrected. Good luck enforcing it. When it comes to wash sales regulation, tax avoidance seems to be the main concern.

Your obsession with crypto is strange given how much you don't support or like the space.

The CFTC enforces wash trade regulations rather strictly. Lots of enforcement cases.

This thread was recently created for me and other skeptics, after others grew tired of our participation in the crypto threads. If you'd like to limit your consumption to cheerleading then those other threads are still active.

Of crypto? Links?

I have no problem with your participation, and I'm happy to read contrarian views. It's just strange to me you spend so much time and effort posting on a mostly anonymous message board about something that you're so confident in failing.

Most crypto isn't actively regulated yet.

It's strange to me that people discuss investing in virtual currencies formulated out of thin air, most of whom don't understand the algorithms or math and just take everything at faith. To each his own.

And yet, we are 13 years in and way higher than where it all began.

There are certainly plenty of shitcoins, manipulation, leverage bullshit, etc. but it's naive to think that cryptocurrency and blockchain technology do not have a place in our future. Maybe it's not in current form and maybe one day Bitcoin won't be the flagship, but given the financial and time investment that many have made, I don't think it's going anywhere. Plus, you are literally talking about future regulation. Regulation is pointless if cryptocurrency ceases to exist.

Liquidity-driven manias have a tendency to last a while.

Blockchain has no practical use outside of some very niche cases - it's a bad engineering solution in search of a problem at scale. Most businesses and business units that tried to monetize blockchain have shut down due to lack of demand, including some very large and established corporations. The only utility left is to justify speculation by crypto adherents.

Whether or not crypto survives long enough to be regulated is anyone's guess.

Niche like the Byzantine generals problem?

Yep, nobody outside of crypto enthusiasts think going decentralized and eliminating the safeguards of centralized financial institutions is a good idea. They like their transactions to be protected and insured against loss from errors and theft. They also like rights of rescission.

CNBC: Bill Murray raised nearly $200,000 worth of crypto for charity—a hacker stole it almost immediately

"Bill Murray is the latest celebrity to be targeted by crypto thieves.

Criminals made off with 119.2 ETH (about $185,000) that the actor had raised during his NFT charity auction. The unknown hackers also attempted to steal non-fungible tokens from Murray’s personal collection, which includes two CryptoPunk NFTs, according to Coindesk."

Source: https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/09/bill...to-hacker.html

It's very important for a settlement medium to have no practical uses cases so that there is only monetary demand that affects its market valuation.

Crypto is useless - this is good for Bitcoin. Few understand.

Isn't being a settlement layer a practical use?

yes its the monetary use. You want your settlement mediums market valuation to be based on the demand for money and nothing else. Having external demand factors distort its ability to compare currency valuations.

Don't compare it to currency valuations then?

I think we can introduce the philosophical concept of a commodity that has a globally held market value (ie all things equal china values it the same as the US). Is there anything interesting about the comparison of this commodity's price to bananas in the US versus bananas in China?

@ProffesionalMalaka its very important to distinguish between crypto and bitcoin in this context

Yes, banana demand is relatively stable. This commodities' demand fluctuates wildly and cyclically. Seems like an important distinction.

Also, if banana demand starts to grow, farmers can plant and harvest more of it. Can't be done if demand grows with bitcoin.

There it is, guys, we finally found a use case. It will solve water crisis with buzzwords!