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10-07-2017 , 10:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by omar coming
If you're asking for why you should you use bitcoin to buy a burrito instead of a credit card today the answer is you shouldn't. Bitcoin isn't ready for that level of low dollar transactions yet.
I have bought burritos and other food using bitcoin many times. When the option is available I usually take it. It is very straightforward, scan a QR-code and press send. Sure it required me to acquire some bitcoin and install an app, but let's not forget that getting my credit card and learning to use it was not trivial either. But yes, if people have already done the time investment in getting a credit card there will be an extra time investment to get into Bitcoin.
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10-08-2017 , 07:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by commas,are,funny
...

It's a fair question to ask: how will governments, tasked with the public interest, react to a private currency that threatens their ability to steal wealth from the population and future generations using inflation and deficit spending?
...
Fixed this for you!
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10-08-2017 , 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heltok
I have bought burritos and other food using bitcoin many times. When the option is available I usually take it. It is very straightforward, scan a QR-code and press send. Sure it required me to acquire some bitcoin and install an app, but let's not forget that getting my credit card and learning to use it was not trivial either. But yes, if people have already done the time investment in getting a credit card there will be an extra time investment to get into Bitcoin.
There is a massive fraud risk to the establishment and you're paying more (in some cases substantially (~$20) more).

All in all a very stupid move for everyone involved. (Well depending on how mining fees are handled. Someone is being a dumbass every time.)
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10-08-2017 , 11:05 AM
You can buy a burrito using a Bit pay card. You can actually wait to btc price to pump, hurry xfer btc to Bitpay, and you can effectively get free burritos if you're good at trading.
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10-08-2017 , 11:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by cafepoker
You can buy a burrito using a Bit pay card. You can actually wait to btc price to pump, hurry xfer btc to Bitpay, and you can effectively get free burritos if you're good at trading.
**** Bitpay. I had a bitpay card for a month and a couple merchants commented on how they haven't seen a card without a chip for a long time. Low and behold my account gets fraudulently cleaned out. I'm thinking, ok no big deal, I'll call them up and it'll be instantly refunded like I've had in the past on other credit cards. Nope, they wanted me to contact the merchants which were in India to tell them the charges were fraudulent and I may or may not get my money back. 99% sure the merchants were just BS companies the carders set up to make charges.

Thankfully it was only $200 and I said F that and just wrote it off.
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10-08-2017 , 11:41 AM
Bitcoin promotes gambling, illicit activities? Btc gets stolen/ hacked all the time? All of the above sounds like it could be the centralized us dollar.

If I'm paying for a burrito making the correct choice of using usd vs btc matters to the business owners more than me. Would you rather have an average Joe pay you with Btc verified on the blockchain? Or...

Risk receiving a counterfit bill (1/4000 bills are fakes)? Do the pen test, hold it up to the light?

Okay my visa will fix this right? Wrong. People steal and print tons of fakes. Or steal someone's wallet or purse. It's a billion dollar business, fraud.

Fraud is everywhere you look. But please don't say that Btc is not secure.
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10-08-2017 , 11:52 AM
If you’re trying to rationalize reasons why a resteraunt would allow bitcoin payment the number one reason is that’s what the customers want. If you get more business because you offer crypto payment then businesses will offer it. The current issue is no one really wants to buy burritos with bitcoin because the mining fees are way too high on small transactions.
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10-08-2017 , 12:14 PM
That's why you use a loadable card. Give it some time. You might see mainstream adoption and better services with lower fees.
Just like the Internet in the 90's, would you not use the Internet back then because it was bulky and slow?
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10-08-2017 , 12:30 PM
You would use the internet because even though it was bulky and slow there wasn’t anything else like it. You could drive to the library for certain things but that was even slower. You can’t really use this analogy with bitcoin when it comes to buying burritos because clearly there are faster more efficient ways to do so.

People using bitcoin to buy burritos in 1st world countries are doing so because they like to use bitcoin. Until bitcoin gets some sort of more efficient ledger for micro transactions most people won’t want to buy burritos with bitcoin.

If you really want to buy burritos with bitcoin that badly the way I would do it is load up a gift card to my favorite burrito place on a gift card app/site that accepts bitcoin and offers gift cards to your favorite burrito place. These gift card sites sometimes offer a discount for buying with bitcoin.
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10-08-2017 , 01:03 PM
Nothing better than a "BTC" transaction that doesn't occur on the blockchain and relies on an existing centralized financial processing system.

Keep on dreaming kids.
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10-08-2017 , 02:36 PM
You need to be smart and think. Bitcoin has many advantages. Doing lots of small purchases will rack up fees. That's why you load something up like a prepaid card. Lots of options with the security chip embedded visa coming soon. Monaco (free card), Tenx, and more.
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10-08-2017 , 09:09 PM
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To answer your question literally, Zuckerberg and Gates created companies that provide hundreds of billions in value to users. Rockefeller acquired tremendous quantities of oil, a product of immense industrial value.

The question is, what value does Bitcoin create for people? What value will it create in the future?

Having a trustless protocol that can transfer any amount of money to anyone else in the world for $2-3 is worth a significant amount of money imo

It obviously has value now that it didn't have eight years ago. It facilitates gambling and other gray-area transactions on the internet. It's pretty quick. It's somewhat anonymous.

It behaves like a currency, but the thing goldbugs and coinbugs rail against, central bank intervention, is why fiat currencies are useful--they are relatively stable and allow for commerce denominated in that currency to transpire. Central bank intervention promotes economic growth and stability, which are a type of public good.

It's a fair question to ask: how will governments, tasked with the public interest, react to a private currency that threatens their ability to effect economic policy or collect tax revenues?

They will be cautious and alarmed since this is an area that they previously had monopolistic control over

From a private markets standpoint, what "moat" does or will Bitcoin specifically have that will prevent a competitor from making it obsolete?

Decentralized hash power keeps BTC in the top spot.

Why should Bitcoin become universally accepted and popularized when stable fiat currencies are available and widely used? I don't believe there's anything so wrong with fiat currencies that indicates Bitcoin or any other type of coin will become superior as a currency. So if the main value in Bitcoin is merely as a payment processor rather than as a currency/stable means of exchange then why do we need it as a coin and why should the coins be worth anything?

Fiat has worked and provided a lot of value over the centuries but it has issues as well. BTC solves some of them.

The serious headwinds I see:

-security. Bitcoins get stolen/hacked all the time. Why would I do a large transaction in Bitcoin rather than dollars? Anonymity is the only reason I can think of, and in exchange I have to take on real security risk. How many average people want to take large or even small security risks with their money in exchange for anonymity? I'd estimate that it's a very small portion.

This is an issue; better tools with easier UI for laymen is needed. BTC is not really for anonmity (there are better altcoins for that, such as Monero or Zcash). The fact that exchanges have a lot of counterparty risk doesn't affect my valuation of BTC itself at all.

-limited future pain points solved. Bitcoin has solved pain points for purchasers of gambling, narcotics and various other illicit services. What pain points exist in other areas that Bitcoin will solve that current systems don't already or won't be able to? If the pain is the nuisance of bank transactions, then that means it's superior as a payment processor, not as a currency. And banks or competitors can replicate the payment processing function piecemeal. Is the value in tax evasion? Escaping money from behind opaque borders such as China's? I'd be interested in somebody's estimation of the potential market value for these uses, but it can't be trillions.

I'm not sure I see BTC as solely a payment processor. That should only be one if its main use cases. BTC's ledger is a transparent encyclopedia of "truth"
that takes hundreds of millions to corrupt. If you want to store something in eternity for anyone to access, you put it on the BTC blockchain. Some of the entries just happen to be payments and money transfers.


-no moat. Facebook's moat is network lock-in combined with aggressive innovation and acquisition of competitors. Same goes for Microsoft, Google, Apple and Oracle. Even with their incredible fortress-like strength these companies are deathly afraid of obsolescence, because it happens all the time; see Blackberry. How is a mostly-inert product such as Bitcoin, or Ethereum or any particular coin that gains traction, going to survive vicious competition from other currencies or payment processors that arise?

I believe the idea is for the protocol to be self-sustaining at some point. People see decentralized, trustless, secure, stable system and pay fees to use it. Miners secure the network and collect these fees. Etc.
Good points and questions. hope my answers help somewhat.
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10-08-2017 , 09:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by augie_
i said "one" fundamental problem. and please point to where i said i invented that idea or that i've made some kind of breakthrough. there are clearly lots of very bright people involved in crypto, but "smartest minds on the planet"...hahahahahahaha come on. some of the best grifters on the planet, definitely.

Haha, you might be surprised...
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10-08-2017 , 09:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheMVP
The reason I don't want to elaborate is I think you're very arrogant for thinking that you have found the fundamental problem with crypto just by thinking about it when some of the smartest minds on the planet have been debating these issues for years.
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10-08-2017 , 09:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by iloveny161

I'm not sure I see BTC as solely a payment processor. That should only be one if its main use cases. BTC's ledger is a transparent encyclopedia of "truth"
that takes hundreds of millions to corrupt. If you want to store something in eternity for anyone to access, you put it on the BTC blockchain. Some of the entries just happen to be payments and money transfers.

Good points and questions. hope my answers help somewhat.
This is the beauty of blockchain, see Factom
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10-08-2017 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by heltok
Haha, not sure if trolling, that vid is ridiculous. I'm def no Vitalik fanboy.
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10-09-2017 , 01:23 AM
Vitalik is a moron.
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10-09-2017 , 01:11 PM
why would you want to spend valuable Bitcoin (and potential high, variable fees) on a gah damn burrito? Much rather fork over some germ infested 1 dolllar bills.
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10-09-2017 , 01:34 PM
Canadians selling eth's to go holiday shopping and pay for those mortgages.
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10-09-2017 , 02:01 PM
@barbartheidiot
@kazuya
@imjosh

Don't use reddit for forming theses on ethereum

They are a bunch of broke dust traders.

The flippening, joke.
Icos, joke.
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10-09-2017 , 02:20 PM
can we get a check-in on @imjosh please?
These last 2 days cannot be good (!de RATIO!)
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10-09-2017 , 02:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rubbrband
Some ppl selling eth to buy btc for the fork, people will buy back into eth after the split.


Quote:
Originally Posted by aggo
Fake:

people are selling ETH because they want to have their 2 bitcoins because of fork


Real:

Institutional investors are less likely today than ever to use ETH has a hedge against Bitcoin after studying bcash fork.

ICO bans remove a huge use case from ETH and ETH fomo/price increase

ETH price today vis a vis is very similar to when there was over 1billion in ICO raise this summer --> attractive for ICO slush funds to cash out

Historically ETH/BTC chart goes through periods of mega strengths and weaknesses in correlation. Recently a lot of trends have broken.
e.g. BTC going up used to mean ETH goes up. Today that has changed.



get off twitter and reddit. The only people who are selling eth to get 2 bitcoins are dust traders.

Please elaborate. It seems to me that people want very much to get into the hard fork just like last time except it’s even more pronounced now becauss people understand how the fork works better.
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10-09-2017 , 03:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman08
can we get a check-in on @imjosh please?
These last 2 days cannot be good (!de RATIO!)
I sold my ETH for MTL at 210k and my portfolio is now down close to 50% due to the sell off for BTC. RIP. Just going to hold and pray $ comes back to it after split, if not oh well I only put in a couple month salary

Last edited by beansroast01; 10-09-2017 at 03:58 PM.
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10-09-2017 , 05:20 PM
As an investor or trader, when your idea is proven wrong, you have to know when to cut your losses.


Letting an investment or trade sour to -50% is completely negligent.
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10-09-2017 , 09:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by imjosh
I sold my ETH for MTL at 210k and my portfolio is now down close to 50% due to the sell off for BTC. RIP. Just going to hold and pray $ comes back to it after split, if not oh well I only put in a couple month salary
Never heard of MTL, so I went to website and saw the plan "We Are Shaping Digital Money.
Transfer money instantly around the globe with nothing more than a phone number. Earn rewards every time you spend or make a purchase. Ditch the bank and go digital."

SMH

LOL.. sorry, that's worthless. So they linked a phone number to a crypto wallet essentially? When you can earn "loyalty coins" by spending money.. GTFO.

You need to learn the difference between what is innovative, and what's some **** app some dude created.
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