You can't have covid patients overwhelming hospitals. We need room for everyone that has been dying from heart disease for the last 50 years that nobody gives a **** about and the country continues to run off **** food instead of force feeding them healthy stuff. So take your vaccine so the millions and millions of people who are constantly dying from heart disease have a spot FFS.

Things that would reduce the number of people in the hospital:

- Ban smoking
- Ban alcohol
- Ban sugar

I don't see you supporting any of those issues? Smoking alone causes 1,300 deaths per day.

Due to the policies in place during the pandemic, obesity in kids has risen from 36% to 45.7%! That is going to cause a ton of hospitalizations over their lifetime. (https://www.washingtonpost.com/busin...dhood-obesity/)

According to this study kids are more likely to be hospitalized due to the vaccine than COVID itself.


Please try another reason that actually makes sense.

Banning all those would likely increase the number of people in hospital

Dead people dont use hospitals anwhere near as much as old people

Is this supposed to be an argument against vaccines? That people will still get sick and/or die of other things?

The mental gymnastics people will go through to avoid taking a simple jab, that would allow them to almost 100% eliminate Covid hospitalization as a threat from their life, is interesting.

Yet over on that Herman Cain reddit thread, new people every day (many well under 60) dying in an ICU and saying "I shoulda got the vaccine". Imagine the feeling knowing you allowed yourself to be scared off of a tested and safe medicine, and now your kids will be without a father/mother. So pointless.

This is why you are so dumb as it is not about being wrong or right.

People can be wrong or right in arguments and I am right far more than Tooth is, thus why he is constantly and quotably caveat, changing and pivoting his positions but that is different than claiming things are fact that are solely opinion.

You seem to not understand that any guesses you are making about the future, no matter how confident you are of them, are only that. Guesses and not fact.

Because you are dumb you cling to it as accurate and still think they are.

And thus why I will greatly enjoy seeing you guys ocean of tears with faced with same.

You can already see how it so easily offends you guys when I claim something is Fact when it clearly is not. They are fine when you do it (in ignorance) but offended when I do it.

I live for those tears and will enjoy many more. And have you to thank Tien.

Thx Tien!

Would love to see the social/political reaction in the USA if the government announced it was planning to reduce pressure on the health system so it could cope better with C19 by a full universal ban of Alcohol.

That would be the immediate end of the Biden presidency right there.

All of these are legacy issues, you smoke now, you get ill in X years time. Even if you had the political capital to do all of the above, none of them will have much if any impact by this winter.

The point is you dont want lots of extra people all turning up at hospital in a relatively short time frame, its very hard for systems to plan and have capacity on tap. In the UK we built a lot of extra bed space for last winter, then it turned out we could hardly use any of it because we did not have enough nurses to staff the beds, the extra nurses that were recruited were not enough to cover nurses/doctors going off ill with C19.

This winter there is very likely to be a bad flu season because mitigations for C19 are also mitigations for flu and the removal of those mitigations will probably mean flu coming back with a vengeance.

So when vaccinations for Children are discussed its because policy planners are worried about stress on the health care system this winter, none of the things you propose work within a time scale to reduce health care system pressure in any significant way by this winter.

If the unvax'd are the ones you concede (as you did prior) that are overwhelming the hospitals, then yes unvax'd kids rising numbers within that segment would count towards that.

How is that hard to understand?

Oh here we are back to the "why do we treat Cancer when more people die of Heart disease' variants of logic that have been posted prior in this thread.

These type of "People die or end up in hospital from other things so why do anything about Covid even when it is now easily treatable' are just bottom of the barrel dumb.

AntiVaxxers - WHY CARE if i don't take it.

Others : you are part of group, that runs straight to the hospital crying for care for your more severe cases of coivd or for alleviation of side effects of horse meds. That impacts others who need servive at the hospitals.

Antivaxxers -


--------------------------------------



Antivaxxers - but wait what about the young people. Why do you then want them vax'd. Are they clogging hospitals?

Others: actually they are getting sick and dying at increasing and very concerning rates. And they are part of that number you 'ok'd' as clogging up hospitals.

Antivaxxers -


----------------------------

Antivaxxers - WAIT! People die of other things too. As long as there are other deaths why care about preventing hospitalizations and deaths with a readily available treatment known to massively reduce hospitalizations and deaths.

Others : Really?

Antivaxxers -

You clearly have no idea who/what I was replying to. If your not participating in the conversation please keep your thoughts to yourself.

Maybe more people would have gotten vaccinated if the democrats hadn't first politicized the issue. Why is any of this political? Vaccines, ivermectin, anything? Why political?

"if Donald Trump tells us we should take it, I'm not taking it" - Kamala Harris referring to covid-19 vaccine.



Remember when Biden said the vaccine wouldn't be madatory? Lies.



Isn't that what the 2 week lockdown at the beginning of the pandemic was about? "Flattening the curve"? 63% of Americans have received at least one dose. This includes 0% of <12 year olds and ~50% of 12-17 year olds.

Banning smoking, alcohol, and sugar would result in an increase of hospitalized people? How?

It's hilarious that you think you look clever by denying a verifiable fact or that anyone is offended. You just look like an idiot. We're not mad we're laughing at how dumb you are.

Trump: " and I’m not talking about the neo-Nazis and the white nationalists, because they should be condemned totally" referring to the "very fine people on both sides"

Except that only seems like a good meme if you are dumb.

The point is that the sick from covid should not get healthcare. it is that they should accept the FREE healthcare in the form of the vaccine so they don't need hospitalization.

That society can see how harmful it is for the anti vax'd to be flooding into the hospitals, resulting in more deaths from Front Line workers, and collateral damage deaths from others who cannot get the care the hospital would otherwise be able to provide is, in no way, mocked by that silly meme above that misses the point.

What the silly meme should show in the 2021 box is the person saying 'it is my right to have others die as a result of my actions and choices' as some type of 'Freedums' argument.

But... but... when Tien and those on 'our side' do it, it is fine and good and appropriate.

When you guys do it, it is hurtful.



Damn I enjoy your mewling tear filled rants!!

Thx for this. Tien you gifted me the best gift ever.

We aren't vaccinating kids under 12 yet.

And if a free vaccine is what it takes to slow down hospitalizations why not just go do it?

We are at 6B doses now and barely any side effects.

Honest question about vaccine hesitancy. This is how I am currently thinking about the vaccine. I don't really see anyone else talking about it in this way and I'm not sure if that is because I am completely wrong or people are choosing to ignore it.

They way I look at it is I have two options.

1) Get the vaccine. Here I am guaranteed to be exposed to side effects of the vaccine and all boosters.

How many boosters are we getting btw? Anyone know? To me, it feels like getting the vaccine is signing a contract for the rest of my life and I don't even know the terms of the contract. Am I going to need a jab every 6 months for the rest of my life? Is everyone actually okay with this?
(I should also mention the risk of COVID mutating into a form that the vaccine does not protect against, if that happens I have exposed myself to vaccine side effects for no benefit)

2) Take the natural approach, get COVID once every 5 to 10 years, and get on with my life.

Currently I believe ~12% of USA population has had COVID, I'm not very active so I think estimating a 15% chance I get infected per year is very conservative. Then if I do get infected, (and survive) I'll have an immunity which is better and longer lasting than the vaccine.


So imo, the options seem to be get covid once or take 14 vaccine does every 7 years. When I frame it this way, the choice seems far from obvious.

What am I missing?

The fact that a vaccine has been tested on tens of thousands in clinical trials, approved by the FDA, is safe... and Covid can kill you.

All of your calculations are based on 2 faulty premises: that vaccines will be proven dangerous and that you can get Covid every now and then and be fine.

Regarding boosters we don't know how many or how often. That is a fact of life. If you want absolutely certainty in the middle of a new pandemic you will be disappointed. But the risk reward is for vaccination and it's not close. Almost every medical expert says the same.

It seems like you didn't actually address any of his points or answer his question or even understand the options he was putting forward.

People always seem to say this, but nothing is 100% "safe". There is definitely some risk from the vaccine, how much is debatable.

So your convinced that the side effects from the vaccine are so insignificant that you would happily take 14 of them instead of getting covid once? (I have no problem with that opinion, just trying to clarify your stance)

This is not helpful in convincing me. I am currently quite aware and okay with my risk from covid. There is a lot of **** in life and covid is just one more thing added to the list. If I'm going to take the vaccine I want to know for sure that it is of benefit to me. If taking the vaccine adds more uncertainty why would I be interested in that?

Outside of the old/sick population, the main reason to take the vaccine is purely in your head:

> If you believe taking the vaccine protects you or your child
> If you believe taking it will make you a better person

Then it 'will' to a large degree, perception is reality. Unwinding vaccination from politics is no longer possible. The best framework for predicting the future will be modeling political tactics and strategies, health will trend towards irrelevance

This thread used to be a must read. Now it's politics on crack

Moderators don't ban the high volume idiots/non regulars who contribute nothing and are here for nothing but politics and trolling, you get...guess what....politics and trolling. Just a basic moderation failure really.

And since I think my point is made about how dumb Tien's position is that labeling anything opinion as 'Fact' just due to his feelings ...and how much and how quickly you guys got angry when someone on the 'other side' (me) did the exact same thing (those quick reply tears were delicious), I will now say that I will not be 'doing a Tien' going forward ...even as he continues to do it and none of you complain.

That is because it is just dumb and my point has been made and proven.

If it makes you feel any better, there's no reason you're committed to getting boosters for the rest of your life just because you opt for the vaccine today. You are perfectly able to get the vaccine today if you decide that it makes sense and then re-evaluate whenever the recommended time for boosters rolls around.

ETA: Just to clarify, 6-12 months from now we should start getting some feel for the need for and effectiveness of boosters. Some doctors predict that 1 booster shot may be all that's required for a long time (many years), some predict that it will be something that's recommended annually like the flu vaccine. Nothing wrong with getting the initial vaccination now and waiting to see what we learn in the coming months before deciding on follow-up shots. You're not committing yourself to anything going forward. It's not like buying a timeshare.

All these people might disagree with you.

https://1000covidstories.com/



So might this guy who just lost his 16 year old only son.