Kids under 12 can't get the vaccine, and cases of kids are going up quite a bit, particularly in the derpier states. I get that pretty much all the anti-vaxx crowd that posts here will never have the opportunity to have kids, but that is a part of the equation that makes it not quite as simplistic as you suggest. Its why people need to get inoculated, one way or the other, as quickly as possible.

Team "Let it Rip!" accepts all new members who appreciate it is time to let the derps be derps and get inoculated. If that means they burn their masks before going to Ponderosa to fill up their feed bags - no problem, we approve! That is assuming the Ponderosa restaurant chain still exists - hopefully it does not.

To be fair though I think there's a non-zero possibility we will see unvaccinated people arrested and put in internment camps in the near future. Look at how many people are willing to sign a petition calling for just that. I mean if you have got cable news anchors calling for the unvaxxed to be barred from supermarkets, which effectively means starving people to death, nothing is off the table. It's amazing to see the fascism lurking just below the surface in a "civilized" society.

vaccine passports coming to quebec

https://montreal.ctvnews.ca/quebec-t...says-1.5535639

You could tell me I can never go into a supermarket again and I would somehow, through force of will or Instacart, find a way not to starve to death.

Good for you.

Not everyone is that resourceful though or has the means to access reasonably priced fresh food from other sources. I suppose they could forage for scraps in rubbish bins or something to stay alive.

Yea candybar it’s useful to separate ‘coronavirus was created in a lab in Wuhan’ to this stuff shuffle is talking about.

The virus came from the lab that much is pretty clear at this point. If you still think it came from the wild say so.

If we were free in the good old days--why were leper colonies a thing?

Welcome to the arms race.


https://www.washingtontimes.com/news...d-19-vaccine-/

possible to miss the plot more than shuffle?

Like everything okay ? You're going deeper and deeper into the abyss my dude.

I suspect likely reason is Delta evades vaccines easier than alpha plus protection wanes earlier than was thought. Many Israeli seniors were vaccinated 6+ months ago and their protection is waning. Hence the need for boosters.

They are still averaging 6 deaths per day over the last 7 days so it's not exactly a calamity. But it does show Israel needs to roll out boosters to the elderly, and so do other countries.

I'm not going to opine on the various origin theories, since most people are at this point looking at this from a purely political angle but the lab leak theory is certainly plausible and it's not a conspiracy theory in the classical sense. Given what we know, it does not require perfect cooperation among a large number of unreliable actors with no reason to work together to suppress evidence. Shuffle's theories on the other hand are completely insane.

The main reason to be suspicious about the WIV is that Wuhan had the first outbreak. If COVID-19 was spread around the world before the first known outbreak in Wuhan, that more or less exonerates WIV. Not that it's still impossible for this to have to originated from WIV, but the primary reason to be suspicious of WIV is gone. Also, one of the key reasons people are skeptical of the natural origin theory is that we haven't found the intermediate host animal and/or its close relatives in animals. If this was widespread much earlier and we have no way to trace any of this, well any number of coronaviruses found in animals could've been the source and most of the key mutations that make COVID-19 what it is may have occurred in humans.

The fact that Israel is telling their 60+ year olds to get their booster shots right away doesn't look good for vaccines stopping transmission.

That means the only way we get through all this is via mass infections.

If the immunity from infection wears off then people would just need to get booster infections.

If covid was "everywhere" in 2019, how come no other country on earth had a hospitalization surge in 2019?

It takes just 2 months for a country to go from -> barely any cases, very low infections -> massive surge in infections.

This just doesn't make sense.

I don't like the data coming out of Israel + UK regarding infections but I am hopeful about the data from covid deaths regarding vaccinations.


The data may show that:

- Vaccines do not stop transmission, at all. Variants are high contagious and spread easily.
- Vaccines are highly effective in reducing death and possibly hospitalizations.
- Vaccine effectiveness reduces over time.
- Boosters are needed (we knew that in late 2020 anyway)
- Multitude of new variants are coming no matter what.


Given the above, the only way this virus "dies" out for a large period of time like the Spanish flu did is through mass infections.

Be patient. As he does his research and goes further and further back in time to find the origin he will eventually track its starting point being some Libyans trying to get it from a disgruntled scientist named Doc Brown.

It does seem for now many more Americans are starting to get their vaccines. Perhaps all the cases and people in hospitals around them are starting to have a bit of an impact with a small chunk of those still doing "their own research." How it plays out we will see - your scenario may not be far fetched, but I doubt mass infections will be the way any country really has as their official battle plan.


In the end - vaccine or infection - either works for team "Let it Rip!" and I assume from your posts that you are a member of this team.

Puts a big hole in the theory being repeated ad nauseum by idiots that mass vaccination will lead to herd immunity. Even the so called experts keep spouting this herd immunity BS. It will never happen with leaky vaccines.

I was 100% for slow burn (while locking down olds) vs economic shutdowns. Economic shutdowns have been way too destabilizing.

I am 100% for vaccines for everyone above 35ish and anyone that is overweight or has pre-existing conditions.

I no longer believe covid can stop infections even with vaccines. It's hopeful thinking to believe even with 100% adult vaccinations infections will stop.

The data shows that vaccines are stopping old people from dying.

That means variants are coming no matter what for the next few years.

And if variants are coming no matter what the only way to truly kill it is through eventual mass infections.


We shall see. More data is needed. But its trending that way.

A lot of people are now for slow burn (locking out the derps), so I suppose one can say that is just a variant of the original theme proposed by the derps, albeit with a bit of irony.

I guess I still do not get why you innately assume natural infection is equivalent to lifetime immunity for all variants. How about in the scenario where both forms of immunity (vaccine and infection) wear off - what is your suggestion moving forward? Vaccines or just let everyone get infected 1 or 2 times a year with the latest version?

I do agree with you for right now the best thing the extreme anti-vaxxers (that will never get a vaccine) can do is to just get infected, and it seems many are doing their best in that regard.

If only there was another way to protect yourself besides risky, leaky vaccines that require boosters every six months. Hmmm.....

But yeah, targeted vaccination of at risk groups is the only way to go imo. This insane hysteria to get everyone vaccinated may well lead to disaster, by driving even more dangerous vaccine-resistant variants to emerge.

You look at that list and you don't immediately realize that many of these were the earliest COVID hotspots in the US?

https://www.worldometers.info/corona...y/us/#timeline

States for the first 20 cases in the US

Oregon
Washington
Illinois
California
Massachusetts
Arizona
Wisconsin

Those 9 (out of 50 states) include 5 of the 7 states that had the earliest reported COVID cases in the US. Of the other 4, Connecticut, Rhode Island and Michigan were definitely early hotspots way back in March/April 2020. Not sure about Iowa.

Again, your insane theories aside, the point is that the choice of the states was not random and you cannot extrapolate from the data to infer anything at the national level. You're just engaged in circular reasoning where you're assuming that COVID-19 was widespread or whatever, so any combination of states must have been representative enough. That's not how anything works.

No, I'm literally saying the same thing that particular study's authors are saying. You're just misunderstanding the study entirely and you also don't seem to know how these things work. It's very obvious to everyone that you have no idea how anything works and just accept uncritically what happens to appeal to your conspiratorial thinking at the moment and reject anything that goes against it. From the actual study:

I know you're struggling with some issues, to put it mildly, but engaging in this type of nonsensical thinking and combining with motivated reasoning cannot possibly be helping. You lack the relevant background knowledge to discuss any of this, you don't have the persistence or intellectual humility to earnestly acquire the relevant knowledge and even if you overcome all of this to magically learn everything you need, you certainly lack the emotional stability to fairly evaluate the evidence.

Amazing.