That's not the point I was making. Change China to North Korea or whatever.

For the record, the guy retweeted a non-peer reviewed study in early March that was entirely based on data from China, and never thought that was something that needed to be questioned.

For sure the Nordics were fortunate not to be ground zero in Europe, like Italy was, then a lock down would probably have been inevitable and the outcome would still have been worse. Different circumstances call for different measures.

How is everyone else in Europe solving the crisis?

In what way is Sweden alienating their neighbors and trading partners?

Upholding democracy and freedom does not equate to killing people. This is a natural disaster, that they are actually doing quite a lot to mitigate the effects of. I would also argue that Swedish leaders are the one who are strong, as they are the ones who dare to trust their expert agencies in the face of most other countries' leaders taking another route. The leaders of some of those other countries have chosen that route out of necessity, e.g., Italy and Spain, but others have done so for political reasons so as not to be blamed for the deaths from the disease, e.g., Great Britain and Denmark, and others as a pure power grab, e.g., Poland and Hungary.

I am not necessarily saying that Sweden's chosen startegy is better than if they had locked down. And even if it is perhaps it would have been better to lock down anyway, to err on the side of safety. You, however, argue this in a very strange manner, with a lot of emotion. This is a poker forum, we should be able to compartmentalize and analyze things without emotional bias.

Everyone in Europe has chosen a strategy to try & eliminate the the virus from European soil, while Sweden is nowhere near trying to achieve this.

At the moment everyone is too busy with their own problems to care about Sweden, but do you really believe that if Europe is successful in reaching China/North-Korea statistics, that the border of Sweden will be open if in Sweden the infection is not under control? The borders will be closed and no European country will be accepting Swedish visitors. How is that not alienating neighbours and trading partners?





Experts are pretty much in charge of running the country in most European countries, don't act as if Sweden is unique in that.

And don't try to compare Sweden's **** show to other **** shows, we are comparing good responses vs Sweden, not other shitty responses vs Sweden.

You also mistake my conviction for emotion. I think not wanting to be responsible for massive excess unncessary death is in the definition of good leadership. It is what is the difference between leadership that is there to serve the citizens and leadership that is there to serve themselves.
Accepting massive unnecessary death as a country leader should only be acceptable if the alternative is much, much worse. That is simply not true for a strong economy & rich country like Sweden.

I'm afraid you'll think I'm emotional again but I'll say it anyway: Swedish leadership is either corrupt or incompetent. Maybe we'll find out at some point in the future which one is true, maybe not.

The whole thing is a sick joke. The study itself found 1.5% infected (minus 0.5% false positive rate = 1% raw data), which they then "adjusted" using various statistical methods to get to 2.8%. It's downright bizarre, like what many global warming researchers do with adjusting down the historical temperature record. Bottom line - all the LA serology tests are worthless. If you take away their statistical manipulations, even ignoring selection bias, you come with a minimum IFR of 0.7% with cases yet to play out.

Those 30 strains and the variable mortality in them is interesting (New York got hit with one of the real bad strains).

I'd think vaccination is going to be a real **** show. At some point I'd be curious to start a discussion on things to do this Summer and early Fall to prepare for round 2.

Is there actually any evidence for this?

Is there any good evidence that lethality differs among the strains? Until there is it's a bit of a leap to say one place must have gotten a severe strain.

I'd read this and two similar others on the same study. Your guess is as good as mine on the data. But we'll surely hear more in the next few months.

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/scie...-chinese-study

Not a virologist but I would think we'd be seeing reports of similarities in strains in hard hit areas if that were the case.

Though it could potentially explain why some areas with atrocious responses aren't seeing a lot of deaths or severe cases while the governments get all the credit

Trailer for documentary dropping 26Apr2020

https://people.com/health/cdc-confir...in-washington/

What would this mean?

Explains how things got so out of hand so fast. You back the whole timeline up for certain parts of the country.

Italy must have had that too (I'm sure there are articles, I recall seeing a few).

Some more info from Sarah Gilbert, Vaccine trial

Over 5000 18-55 years old have volunteered for the first group (as predicted, there's no shortage of volunteers). Didn't say how many passed, or expected to pass, the screening stage.

Subject to final sign off, 2 people will be vaccinated tomorrow (1 covid, 1 meningitis)
Plan is to do 6 on Saturday and far more from Monday.

Final funding for the trials and PPE has been provided.

Good to hear. If the MERS animal data is true it has a decent chance of success. Shame they're not actively infecting people, it will take longer to get reliable data, particularly under lockdown with very low spread.

Basically nobody, even experts in China, thinks Covid-19 will be eliminated without major advances in vaccine and antiviral technologies hitherto unknown.

I find it highly disturbing people are buying China’s official line that basically all new cases there have been imported, even as it becomes publicly known they are finding “asymptomatic” people still and the tests they used returned a lot of false negatives. And even while the Chinese government admitted it understated Wuhan death toll by at least 50%.

This is not okay. It’s creating a false narrative that China eliminated the virus and false expectations on what could realistically be accomplished in the fight against Covid-19. It also contributes to the narratives Beijing is trying to push to shirk responsibility.

The below is from the article:

Also, wouldnt it be perfectly reasonable for all healthcare workers in Sweden to just walk off the job. If the government is knowingly putting you directly in the line of fire, its time to go AWOL.

A Geneva antibody test found that likely cases were 5-6x what had been reported, with an IFR that they estimate would be much higher than the Stanford tests.

Here's an interesting tweet about it.

https://twitter.com/EricTopol/status...69683948462081

Also, here is a thread from a Johns Hopkins specialist about antibody tests in general.

https://twitter.com/cmyeaton/status/1253018122304606215

I'd take the over on 0.5% false positives.

Start living in self-sustaining eco-villages?

Remember those experiments where they had a bunch of people live in a biosphere? That's our future.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/env...der-the-bubble

There have been thousands of healthcare workers who have gone into corona-wards without proper protective equipment and there have only been reports of dozens people walking off.

I am interested in how ICU-nurses & doctors treating corona patients in Sweden think about the strategy, though. I can't imagine that the general opinion is supportive for such weak measures, but maybe I'm wrong.

Do you also think that South Korea's statistics are fake, then? They had an outbreak that is surely above the threshold for being "out of control" and are testing at <0,2% positive at the moment. The last day they had triple digit new cases was April 1st.

I agree that China's figures are bull ****, and that a 100% business as usual life is impossible without a major break through. But we can have a 'normal' life without having a new outbreak. The changes we'd have to accept are significantly smaller than the pain & suffering of just accepting full ICUs and massive excess death as the new normal.

A lot of people care and have no power other than their vote

C19 is just the soup du jour, trending topic of discussion

Plenty of people rant incessantly about corn subsidies, corrupt laws/regulations that legalize the funneling of poison into our bodies, and the unaddressed addictions and disease that comes with...

People just get tired of wasting their breath. No one cares. When I joined 22 I was an angry at the world sweet summer child ranting daily about the UIGEA. Then I went outside and let the sun calm me down. Still ranty, but this is nothing new. Whoever has the gold makes the rules and that may never change ever...

Also, let's wait a year and see who was more right and more wrong as the picture is clearer

It's entirely possible Sweden got this right and everyone else got it wrong. Like the Zen master says, "We'll see."

Time to become a cult leader