It's not theater to the people who are alive and well who would otherwise be on a ventilator or dead. Which is thousands upon thousands of people.

I'm not saying the vaccine is theater. Simply that the demonization of the unvaccinated isn't entirely about the problems they are causing.

It's largely political theater. They are politically useful as a scapegoat. That won't change with their level of contribution to coronavirus related issues. They will be utilized as long as its politically viable.

Saying a group is causing all your problems /= a vaccination outreach program.

That's a horrible take.

You just realized 17 months into the pandemic that the masks are complete theater because you finally left your house. You still attribute mask wearing ideology to Republican vs Democrat, but all rational people understood that masks were a complete joke last year when we were forced to walk into a restaurant with a mask on, sit down at the table and immediately remove it. We closed parks, beaches and trails but kept indoor supermarkets open. We go to the supermarket wearing a mask, the cashier wearing a mask, separated by plexiglass, yet the stocker & cashier touch every single item that we are taking home with us. I've been traveling Mexico the past couple weeks, some restaurants spray the bottom of my shoes with a water bottle, lol. 0 cases of influenza last year. Hospitals getting paid more by Medicare to have covid deaths than other type of deaths. I'm wondering how much of this entire pandemic is theater.

I don't have any definitive answers about how much of this is theater, unlike you. "Unequivocally works" for a brand new type of vaccine technology on a brand new virus. I'm not talking about mumps, measles or polio vaccines that have decades of research and proven efficacy...which is what you seem to be referencing when you talk about vaccines that work unequivocally.

Does the PCR test work unequivocally?

There seems to be a problem from the start where Fauci and politicians just tell you whatever suits their agenda regardless of accuracy, "truth", etc. Their logic is the messaging is optimal for public wellbeing at the time they are speaking, the problem with that is it completely erodes trust in them.

The obvious result is they are frustrated with the level of compliance which's worsened by their prior actions/credibility

In the end every adult will have their willing or unwilling form of vaccination whether it be by the vaccine or Delta or the next variant. I assume you are in favor of the let it rip approach at this point and let the chips fall where they will for the unvaccinated? You can even keep your mask at home if you like or throw it out.

Also, how long do you think the polio vaccine was tested before it was then tested on over a million kids? It has many decades now, but do you think it had that luxury then? Salk, born in 1914, developed it in 1952 and it was in a million kids in under 2 years. If the same derpland of today existed then we would still have polio around today. Fortunately for now this current thing does not hit kids the same way so it can be the derp adults that charge into the storm and get their delta vaccine quicker. Maybe Trump can hold more rallies to help that effort. No masks allowed at those as that would be unpatriotic.

Yes, I'm happy to be in the control group for this experiment.

I assume you are in favor of taking away basic civil liberties from people who refuse to participate in a medical experiment because somehow those people are putting your health at risk?

The foundation that Salk presented his research to had been researching Polio for 15 years. Also none of these children were threatened with the loss of basic human rights if they didn't sign up for his experiment.

No

Per Wiki:
Developed in 1952, tested on a small group in 1953. Tested on a larger group in 1954.

According to this Only 440,000 got the vaccine from 1952 until the vaccine was licensed in 1955.



And then, despite 3 yrs of large scale testing:

No doubt many here would think the Polio vaccine was a bad idea. Perhaps some still do.

I am satisfied with your participation as well.

Nah, I actually accept that derps just need to be derps so best to just let them derp it up as quickly as possible. I do not love the potentially negative impact derps can have with a contagious virus, but sometimes society has to accept that as part of the situation, so let it rip, and move on. The vaccine being available changes the math for many in that regard, so go to a Trump rally and yell and hug people for hours at this point. If Cain had not croaked maybe he would be doing that.

Odds are the same type of equipment and ability to understand and research things in the 40s and 50s is not the same as it is today. Also, they have been researching these types of viruses for a while as well, but again we agree that it is time to let it rip and have derps go full derp, so go to as many rallies as you can find at this point and show the virus that you will not let it bully you. When you catch it - good luck with your outcome. Most unvaccinated people will survive in the end, and it seems we agree the quicker they get inoculated in whatever form the better.

Where do you draw the line on Civil Liberties versus Public Health when your actions and choices can potentially kill others?

When Ebola hit US shores with those 11 individuals would you fight for the right of an individual who wanted to, to be able to protect his medical status, and travel anywhere he wanted within the US while he still lived?

Go for a walk in the heart of the busiest downtowns of the biggest US cities?

How far does 'M'uh Freedums' go for you?

To be fair - these libertarian or whatever types are pretty clear on their priorities, and those are that their individual freedom is always what matters. Your example will not change that.

This happens to be an odd time where the development of a voluntary preventative vaccine changes the roles a bit so the original let it rip crowd that pushed the olds and fatties and people stupid enough to have cancer being in the control group now get to switch roles. I actually appreciate those that embrace their new role even if I do not agree with their mentality. If they want to go to a rally and proudly say that wearing a mask and getting a vaccine means you are unpatriotic as they get grifted by Trump - meh, whatever at this point.

Obviously those involved in public health and politics, even some hard core on the right, will try to find a more healthy path, and that is part of their jobs so no issue with that. In this case I am in agreement with the snowman that its time to just let it rip without conditions and get it over with as quickly as possible and if they think that being inoculated with a vaccine created in a lab is worse than being exposed to a virus that many of them believe was a weapon created and intentionally released from a lab in China - again, sure, whatever. Is what it is. Let it rip.

only 2 of the vaccines use the new amazing technology. all the rest use extremely old outdated technology

thats what these inbred freedom hillbillys dont understand. ebola has brokentrough multiple times now, is still an ongoing outbreak and will be back in america not if, but when. there will also be virus with much higher mortality that will eventually spread worldwide. if you ask these derps what mortality rate is acceptable, 30,50,80%? when do your personal liberties take 2nd to community protection they have no answer or the answer is never.

Are ya'll really that surprised that people who are less intelligent don't have all the answers?

https://www.cdc.gov/csels/dls/locs/2...Testing_1.html

"CDC encourages laboratories to consider adoption of a multiplexed method that can facilitate detection and differentiation of SARS-CoV-2 and influenza viruses."

https://www.fda.gov/medical-devices/...isk-false-test

Do people even understand what that means in regards to the numbers (both infections and deaths)?

The anti gen rapid tests have always been considered garbage but what do you think it means?

Covid is not distinguishable from Influenza without using a Test, according to CDC.

The Tests however cant distinguish between Influenza and Covid, according to CDC.

The average age of death for Covid-Patients is above the life expentancy, and the average co-morbidities is >3.5.

Long Covid is undefined and includes basically anything you "feel" after having had a positive test (even mental health problems).

All major pharma companies have a massive track record of commiting fraud.

What do you think I think it means?

Seems you think Covid is fake or something, which is a bit old school for this thread. Perhaps some of the deaths are people who are not really dead? Apparently excess deaths in the USA last year and this year are in the hundreds of thousands. What could be the reason behind that? Is it a fake news type stat or something?

You need to better explain the specifics of your position if you ever get the courage to do that instead of being coy about it by shrouding your beliefs in a list of contextless bullet points and questions. You clearly believe you have the answer to your "what do you think it means?" question - why don't you share your answer and gifted insight to your question. Thanks!

So you are not refuting any of the claims I made?

Its just about "excess mortality"?

Is your excess mortality an absolute measure as its usually the case in the news, or is it already adjusted for demographical changes?

Is it a statisticially significant one?

Does it account for all the many collateral damages that the insanity surrounding all of this has caused?

Because I havent seen a single statistics that does that, if you know of one, Im eager to see it. As far as germany goes, we didnt have excess mortality once you account for demographical changes.

Return of the derp.

All this means is that people can take a covid test and if they have influenza the test will come back positive for influenza, where as before it would have just come back negative for Covid.

It just means you can now diagnose two conditions with one test, instead of having a test that just picked up covid.

Somewhere in the derp a sphere talking point generation system, based in Russia probably, someone is trying to paint this as a gotcha, which of course only derps will fall for.

You did not make any claims. You spewed some contextless factoids then avoided stating your beliefs. I asked you your beliefs knowing you would avoid answering. You avoided answering.

They always adjust for demographics when doing that stat, and the expected number of deaths each year is a pretty accurate one. The past couple of years have had a huge excess of deaths compared to expected (with the demographics factored in). Those deaths came from something, so gee what could it be? Hey, you can always just say that type of data is fake if you like.


Definitely is.


Pretty much. If you have any specific issues with the data you can list your specific concerns about it. Some areas may have more non covid deaths (suicide) while others may have less (car crashes, violent crime etc.). Good luck finding 500,000+ excess deaths that are non Covid though!


This type of data is beyond easy to research if you really wanted, but lets not kid ourselves that you want to research it, because if you did then you would not get you the results you want to believe in.

Now, I answered your questions, so let's see if you finally have the courage to answer one. What do you think is going on with Covid? I ask that again expecting you will not answer it at all, and I do find your really retro Covid is a hoax thing fun to see as most of the other anti-vaxxers have moved on from that to much newer messaging when it was obvious that Covid was not just the flu. None of them will pretend that Covid did not account for excess deaths anymore, so it is kind of entertaining to see someone still living in April, 2020 with regard to their Covid outlook. Since you are in 2020 - be sure to bet on Trump winning the election before and after it happens!

Yup.

Society is literally allowing the dumbest citizens in our midst, the Derps, to say 'we will dictate the safety measures this society will take and not allow the science to do so'.


America likes to trumpet how they have the mightiest military in the world and how no nation would dare mess with us. And yet any country such as N.Korea now sees how very easy it would be to crush America and how America would have almost no defense.

Simply pick from the vault of bio engineered most lethal viruses with the type of transmission profile, like covid, that allows it to proliferate exponentially before symptoms are evident and the US stands no chance.

It is not hyperbole to say the US literally stands no chance because even once identified as the Country ending threat it was, the Derps in society would refuse any necessary actions to contain and stop it that other countries would be taking.

Derps read this and think 'that simply is silly and not possible' as they assume N.Korea or any enemy State would be too 'nice' to focus on that US exploit when in fact every nation who finds themselves in an adversarial position to the US should and would likely only focus on this. You can't match their nukes but you can crush the US in a much easier way.

QP is now anti mask and a Chinese bioweapon guy. You love to see it




Yeah the mentally powerful, like you, know that China would easily be capable of releasing a bioweapon