Post is just a massive bunch of your standard caveating on previous positions and gargantuan off the charts strawmaning and handwaves.

Lets see some of your literature, you have done this in several posts now, its time for an actual city buddy.

Also if you want to take the time you can go and check me out arguing with people in the OOT thread that masks are not a silver bullet and only work if they dont inhibit other interventions.

So yea lots of words for such an epic swing and miss.

I cant speak for every country, but in the UK mask use has not involved the possible downsides.

Masks are massively unpopular in the UK.

People wear them on the whole, but there is a significant part of the community that resents it.

There is absolutely no indication the Government, even as incompetent as ours has not implemented a strategy because masks will do.

Its just empty conjecture.

Any (intelligent) thoughts on this?:

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/202...t-15-per-cent/

('No sign of second wave' as ONS data shows normal level of deaths for time of year - People who would normally be expected to die of flu or pneumonia may instead be dying from Covid-19')

Also do we know if N95 masks are any/much more useful that random-piece-of-cloth or bandana ones?

All anti C19 policies are also anti flu policies. If you stop the anti C19 policies it increases and flu comes back.

This is just its just the flu, lets all laugh at this article in December when deaths are 1K a day.

I agree that is true for the UK (as far as government policy goes). The UK has an actual sensible policy that knows that masks are mostly bullshit and that distancing is what matters.

I've previously posted a summary of the anti-mask literature here. You clearly have never read it or you would be more informed. The mask literature is all over the place and low quality evidence and science. If you used your common sense, you'd realize that's why for many months the CDC and WHO advocated against population mask wearing. The entire sum of the literature held no good evidence they help at the population level.

Let me quote you some keys bits:

Ventilation kicks the crap out of masks. Yet only some governments are pushing for more ventiliation, having a false sense of security in masks:
There is a key difference here between the population level mask wearing (ineffective cloth masks improperly warn, touched frequently, and not disinfected between uses), and more targeted, short term mask wearing.

There are dozeons more of the above studies by the way.

The evidence fits into four categories:

1. Observation studies that sometimes show substantial (very large) reduction in droplet spread when masks are worn

2. High quality randomized controlled studies in the real world which show zero to negative effects of masks in actual infections with cold or influenza

3. First wave data which correlates early mask wearing with lower total death. Absolutely useless since this was winter and I agree masks help in winter, and also absolutely useless because the governments that mandated masks early were the same ones who locked down early (i.e. they ignored the cuck Western experts/WHO and did what made sense early and well).

4. Second wave data (now) from Europe which shows mask wearing has had no measurable impact on the rate of increase of transmissions. Data from all US counties which shows no correlation between mask wearing and infections, hospitalizations or deaths.

The Europe sitaution is an excellent demonstration of the problems of (3) - data which led the CDC and WHO to change their position on masks. If you ran the same comparisons from the last 3 months on mask wearing vs infections and deaths, you'd conclude that masks cause corona! Such is the nature of drawing conclusions from biased data. But scientists are mostly brain dead (especially in epidemiology) so the data bias from the first wave change WHO/CDC recommendations.

Overall the data is strongly against population mask wearing doing any good.

Toothsayer 1 =Masks are bad because you want burn through in the summer. (Implying masks stop burn through). Lol Euro and their working masks that stopped burn through.

Toothsayer 2= Masks are bad because they dont work.

As for the negative effects of masks, in contrary to your insane claim that they have no negative effects:

Lowered oxygen saturation which has a variety of negative effects:

World Health Organization:

There is heaps more.

Like I said, you live in a pure fantasy land (as a mask truther) where you think masks help with no downside, so why not use them. The data is clear that they don't help at a population level in warm weather, and there are substantial downsides.

So far O.A.F.K.1.1 has said:

- Masks have actual conclusive evidence in their favor (Reality: even the most rabid pro-mask literature says the evidence is very poor and of low quality)
- Masks have no negative effects (Reality: masks have substantial recognized negative effects across a range of areas from O2 to increased infection to happiness levels)
- Masks have no negative effects on government policy (Reality: In some countries, they appear to have substantial negative effects on policy interventions that work)

Like I said, you're a truther, just like jsb but with a different theory.

Exactly,

Their original position on masks are bad were based on all the studies you quote, which if you tried reading, are relevant to influenza/flu/H1NI

When they realised that C19 behaved differently and had a much higher asymptomatic carrier capacity, they changed their advice to wear masks.

The original incorrect WHO position was absolutely based on the outdated studies you cite. Dated 2009 to 2015.

Thanks for making my argument.

1000 per day is massive dude. That is very unlikely to happen. At 1000 per day, they would be number 1 in the world in 11 days. Czechia aint that big. Don't know enough about Czechia, but I imagine they are catching a large % of cases (30-50%) due to contact tracing. If 7-day average peaks above 200, it's already really bad. Though I agree it's looking like they will get above average 200.

This is just a lag in data. I don't expect any of them to have complete October data yet. EUROMOMO only shows data of Belgium for Spain & Belgium for W41 (we are now W43), and I noticed in the past before that recent data is often updated multiple times.

Spain does show high excess for W41. During wave 1 pretty much anyone saw extremely high excess.

https://www.euromomo.eu/graphs-and-maps/

WHO:

There are some possible disadvantages to wearing masks, but on balance of having wieghed pro v con, we advise wearing them.

Truthersayer =WHO says masks are bad.

Ok so just to be clear you expect massive/statistically significant excess all-cause deaths beyond yearly averages come Dec 1st, and say 30k actual CV19 deaths in Dec?

Do you expect to see that sorta pattern in Sweden too?

LOL at that WHO list, that list can be solved with:
*Don't be an idiot with hygiene during a pandemic. If you're an idiot with hygiene, you're going to get it with or without a mask.
*Try different masks until you find one you like.
*Don't be an idiot and be a bit more patient with people.
*Take off your mask & keep distance if you need to communicate with deaf people (every-day occurence for most people ).

If you're going to be a lazy idiot (which you are), then maybe stop posting. I'm specifically refuting your idiotic claims here:

Using sources which are pro-mask (so you can't impeach their motivations). That doesn't mean I agree with their broad assessments. They are completely different things.

I disagreed with them in February and March on

- Border closures
- The threat of corona and its likely trajectory
- Asymptomatic spread
- The utility of masks

And many other things, and I was 100% correct and the WHO were 100% wrong - I beat the **** out of the world's best experts by simply looking at the data and using reasoning. Now they're wrong again in their judgments and you're doing a Brass and going "but the experts bro!"

This whole conversation is happening because you lack deep understanding of any of the issues.

The guy who posts the studies the WHO used to get masks wrong to support the idea masks are wrong, calls me lazy and tells me I dont have deep understanding of the issues in relation to claims made by the WHO.

Hey guys Truthersayer was the only guy who said C19 might be bad news.

Incredible.

Plenty of people thought corona would be bad. The difference with me was that I was right on every single point early on, merely by looking at the data and reasoning, while the experts like the WHO were wrong on every single point.
This is the second time you've said this. You assume people are like you and don't appreciate what people are really like and how little agency and flexibility they have in their behavior. I don't blame you for that - Belgians are perhaps my favorite ethnicity in the entire world, truly lovely people, thoughtful and intelligent - but it does lead to some cuck-level analysis.

People do what they do. It's not enough to say "but they only have to do x,y,z and everything will be ok!!!". They don't do it. If people did what they should do, corona would be at zero without any lockdowns. The population just had to avoid stranger sex/kissing and close talking for a few weeks and stay home if sick and the pandemic is dead. R is trivial to get below 1 with voluntary behavior. Trivial. Japan did that and it worked. But few other cultures managed it. People are what they are and can only do what their habits and intelligence and flexibility and self control let them do. The fractured decentralized US bureaucracy for example is completely incapable - by its nature, by its habits, by its procedures, by the brains of the people in these jobs - to do the kind of rapid, effective response that Taiwan did which actually worked. Incapable. It's literally impossible no matter what you do from the top. I guess you have to have traveled very widely and lived in a lot of cultures to appreciate these powerful innate traits and habits that define success in situations like this, and appreciate how unchangeable they are. It's not easy to grasp otherwise why some cultures were doomed to fail and others certain to succeed.

So to say "lol no problem, people just need to modify their behavior a little!" is silly analysis.

Yet here you are months later using and quoting the exact same studies the WHO used to agree with them on the incorrect position they held on masks at the start of the outbreak.

Could not make this **** up.

Nuance and situational analysis is lost on the inferior mind. It's why health bureacrats got corona comically wrong and physicists got it right. And also why there's good money in trading.

The world is 10 level nuanced and our hottakes, "consensus science" and simple enough views for people of lower intelligence to grasp comfortably are 1-3 level nuanced.

Hahaha, its nothing to with nuance or situation.

The studies led them to incorrect conclusions, because they objectively dont apply to covid-sars2, they look at viruses that dont have certain objective characteristics of covid sars 2.

Those studies dont suddenly become admissible because of nuance.

They are objectively wrong and are not useful thereby in every situation or context relating to an objectively different virus.

You call people stupid but the only stupid people would be people stupid enough to fall for the excuses and handwaves you make.

WHO: Masks are bad because studies about different viruses.
TS: Lol wat Masks are good.

Time passes.

WHO: Masks are good, we made a mistake using those studies.
TS: LOL wat Masks are bad because studies about different viruses.

This is absolutely nonsense that you're simply making up to wiggle out of being so amazingly wrong on masks. There is no difference in the basic physics of transmission between flu, cold and nCov. Droplets and aerosols get expelled and breathed in. Spread via hands going to eyes and mouth. That's all there is to it. If masks work for nCov then they work for flu/cold. And vice versa.
The stupid people are the people that got absolutely everything wrong in the first wave (the WHO and CDC) at a cost of hundreds of thousand dead, despite the evidence being quite clear and easy to read (as evidenced by the fact that I got everything right)

Best video I've seen on how an N95 works. Pretty amazing actually.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eAdanPfQdCA

One thing that is often overlooked is that naked virus particles (aerosol size) aren't that common, and most of the virus you will encounter is stuck to something, like a bit of dust or a respiratory droplet.

While most masks will not filter out the naked virus, many lab studies done this year indicate that decent multi-layer cloth masks and above will capture these larger bits/droplets. I think you can find a bone to pick with any lab based study for something like this, it's actually not easy to simulate this real world problem in a lab.

Common sense says that anything which reduces the amount of someone else's droplets you inhale will decrease your chance of inhaling the virus, and will reduce the initial viral load. That may have a strong impact on how ill you get.

I don't agree there are no negatives to mask wearing, just that the overall positives outweigh them.

The above reasoning is EXACTLY why the WHO originally said masks are bad. Which you mocked them for.

However you are reducing out a key factor.

Covid-sars2 has a much much higher asymptomatic carrier load than those viruses.

Which is exactly why the WHO changed their advice for what should be obvious reasons the moment this was discovered.

If you have many more people walking around positive but asymptomatic this changes massively the risk profile on masks.

To accuse me of wiggling, when you are using the exact same reasoning to support a position you previously mocked. Shame.

The asymptomatic transmission rate doesn't change any mask usefulness calculus. That you think it does it very weird. The WHO changed advice because garbage in garbage out studies showed that countries that put in an early mask mandate had better outcomes, and that confounded data snooping lead to meta reviews going positive. Which if you did those same studies now on recent data would show the opposite (e.g. infections in Europe pre and post reintroduced mask mandate), showing that it's really GIGO. There's no nuance in the WHO position, no difference between winter and summer even though respiratory droplet transmission (especially among strangers) changes drastically (as evidenced by flu dying out in summer).

Borish,
N95 is strong protection for the wearer (while spreading it to everyone else). All old/vulnerable people should wear one all the time in company, as well as eye glasses. We could get on with normal life them. They have fewer negative effects for the wearer as well.

Cloth masks have zero protection for the wearer from what I've read. They do stop outgoing high velocity particles quite a lot, which is a good thing. I assume the overwhelming data that shows they don't work in warmer (non-flu-spread) weather is because stranger droplets matter little in summer and they're a big negative in gathering touchable infection. They're a walking germ repository that you touch frequently, and for a data point, hand washing >>>>> masks for stopping flu spread.