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Bitcoins - digital currency Bitcoins - digital currency

06-08-2011 , 10:10 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NiSash1337
This guy will probably never eat pizza in his life again, rofl.
The thing is, he probably had a ton more anyway. Yeah, it sucks, but he could get the last laugh if it becomes worthless.
Bitcoins - digital currency Quote
06-08-2011 , 10:11 PM
my pony by a nose
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06-08-2011 , 10:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanash
i disagree that its silkroad or online poker as the primary driver, it started gaining steam in april in the economics blogosphere, and it got a ton of press hits for weeks at prominent sites like forbes without any of them mentioning silk road, which is very hard to get to and use without an extensive knowledge of computers.

we've discussed this before, the guy who bought the pizzas probably has about 80,000 BTC left over- i don't think he's too torn up about it. if you went through the effort to mine 10k bitcoins would you give them all away for a few pizzas? c'mon

crazy swongs today, along for the ride
You dont feel like something happened around April to make the story more interesting?


Also - didnt silk road only recently became difficult to access? Like within the last couple weeks.


Aside from silkroad - what vendors are doing well accepting bitcoins? I truly think the black market legitimized the currency - because its a real reason to use BC instead of the dollar.
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06-08-2011 , 10:39 PM
people think it could be very useful in the black market in the future, but hardly anyone is actually using it for that now- not sure of the exact history of silk road but i would assume it has always been pretty stealth, and there are only like 7 people on the only bitcoin poker site at any given time.


the bitcoin guys have claimed they don't like silk road and would like to see it shut down- if silk road got shut down tomorrow do you think the bitcoin market would crash?

that could even be a good sign for it, to go more mainstream and possibly be able to partner with law-abiding big internet vendors

there are tons of reasons to use BTC instead of dollar or other local currency aside from blackmarket purposes, many of which have been discussed in this thread

the intro to bitcoin video has 300,000 views, and this thread has 30,000, so i suppose black friday has driven more people (myself included) to this thread and to look into bitcoin, so it has been a big driver but probably not the primary one, and its not like poker players find out about bitcoin and then use it to play poker, they find out about it and see the potential for worldwide usage in a multitude of ways
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06-08-2011 , 10:54 PM
Brahm Cohen (creator of bitTorrent) is apparently not impressed with Bitcoin

Quote:
Will the Bitcoin fiasco make Libertarians realize they know diddly about economics? No, it will not.
Quote:
Everybody wondering what Bitcoin fiasco I'm talking about: Don't worry, you'll know soon enough.
http://twitter.com/#!/bramcohen
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06-08-2011 , 11:02 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
Brahm Cohen (creator of bitTorrent) is apparently not impressed with Bitcoin





http://twitter.com/#!/bramcohen


Winning!
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06-08-2011 , 11:08 PM
he might be right that bitcoin could turn out to be a complete failure, but trying to say libertarians know diddly about economics is so blatantly wrong its ridiculous.

maybe you (or he) disagree with their views on economics, but the highest % of economists are libertarians, the party who has studied econ the most is the libertarian party, and if libertarians know diddly about econ which party has the econ wizards? the marxists?
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06-08-2011 , 11:11 PM
Not to mention that saying some unspecified fiasco is going to happen and then everyone will regret being involved is a great way of being able to say "I told you so" when anything bad happens.
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06-08-2011 , 11:12 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanash
he might be right that bitcoin could turn out to be a complete failure, but trying to say libertarians know diddly about economics is so blatantly wrong its ridiculous.

maybe you (or he) disagree with their views on economics, but the highest % of economists are libertarians, the party who has studied econ the most is the libertarian party, and if libertarians know diddly about econ which party has the econ wizards? the marxists?
He makes it seem like there is some hole or problem that he's going to expose.
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06-08-2011 , 11:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TomCollins
He makes it seem like there is some hole or problem that he's going to expose.
But he implies it's related to economics rather than software.
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06-08-2011 , 11:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanash
he might be right that bitcoin could turn out to be a complete failure, but trying to say libertarians know diddly about economics is so blatantly wrong its ridiculous.

maybe you (or he) disagree with their views on economics, but the highest % of economists are libertarians, the party who has studied econ the most is the libertarian party, and if libertarians know diddly about econ which party has the econ wizards? the marxists?
I think he means "libertarians" as in ron paul/internet posters and not Milton Friedman.
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06-08-2011 , 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Max Raker
I think he means "libertarians" as in ron paul/internet posters and not Milton Friedman.
It's hard to say for sure, since the authority you appealed to this time presents no argument at all.
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06-08-2011 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gehrig
It's hard to say for sure, since the authority you appealed to this time presents no argument at all.
What authority did I appeal to "this time"?
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06-08-2011 , 11:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by doublec
But he implies it's related to economics rather than software.
Yeah, who knows. I really don't value his opinion on any economic or political matters any more than I value a Stephen Hawking's opinion on software. Not only that, but he comes across as one of those egotistical types that thinks because he is a genius in one area, he is a genius in all areas.
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06-08-2011 , 11:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fizzwont
haters def gonna hate.

ya, real hard to increase the supply of tulips bro, you got me there.

hope .70 guy hasn't jumped off a bridge.
Could of got in at .50 and strongly considering it

At least got in for some at $5
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06-09-2011 , 12:00 AM
Re: if new competitors don't start popping up soon
here comes TradeHill

site looks pretty slick, not sure where its based out of, and plans to support tons of different currencies, which is awesome.

from @tradehill on twitter:
Quote:
@brucewagner I said 5% when I should have said 10% anyone who uses a referral code gets 10% off at #tradehill. #bitcoin TH-R141 (onlyonetv)
(i'm not affiliated obv)

Last edited by shermanash; 06-09-2011 at 12:28 AM. Reason: its based in chile
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06-09-2011 , 03:17 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanash
site looks pretty slick, not sure where its based out of, and plans to support tons of different currencies, which is awesome.
Looks nice. One odd thing is in their FAQ they have:

Quote:
Does BitcoinExchange do government fiat currency exchanges or money transmitting services?
...
BitcoinExchange Services simply buys and sells digital commodities, and we use licensed and reputable currency exchangers and money transmittal services such as PayPal, Western Union, Moneygram, major banks and financial institutions, etc., to faciliate our transfers.
I thought they were TradeHill, not Bitcoin Exchange Services, which is another exchange: http://www.bitcoinexchange.cc

Maybe they just copied their FAQ.
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06-09-2011 , 03:55 AM
Any bitcoin investing success stories itt?

I see when this was started the bitcoin was going at .7 the USD now at just around 30x, so a 43xish increase = fairly good ROI. After skimming most of the thread I see a lot of people who bought some early than sold than bought some more later when they realized it was gonna hit a spike...

Anybody who bought a decent amount in the beginning and is now in really good shape?

Also, surely the increase in bit coins now is just because of their recent exposure and at some point in the near(?) future we should see a leveling off or decline?
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06-09-2011 , 04:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911
Any bitcoin investing success stories itt?

I see when this was started the bitcoin was going at .7 the USD now at just around 30x, so a 43xish increase = fairly good ROI. After skimming most of the thread I see a lot of people who bought some early than sold than bought some more later when they realized it was gonna hit a spike...

Anybody who bought a decent amount in the beginning and is now in really good shape?

Also, surely the increase in bit coins now is just because of their recent exposure and at some point in the near(?) future we should see a leveling off or decline?
not this thread, but this early adopter now has >$10 million in bitcoin
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06-09-2011 , 04:56 AM
http://forum.bitcoin.org/index.php?topic=6825.0

very interesting thread on the bitcoin forum.

Cliffs on thread
-guy mines/purchases 371k bitcoins last year with the help of some investors that invested 12k. Project went dead when they ran out of money and bitcoins were worthless basically. Guy offers to buy out project earlier this year for 5k, original investors accept deal recently, apparently clueless to what is happening with bitcoin. Guy has 371k bitcoins currently worth over 10 mil all to himself.
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06-09-2011 , 04:57 AM
Sorry, hadn't refreshed browser since Valhalla's post, Ill leave mine up since it has cliffs in it
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06-09-2011 , 06:22 AM
What exactly distinguishes Bitcoins from play money when talking about the legality of poker or sports betting? Anything? If so, what exactly?

CCuster, I've spent around $700 on my BTC stash (~$8 each on average) and I've got around $2,400 worth now. I'm sure others on here have made much more, but as a small-timer it's pretty great. What's funny is how quickly I adjust to the gains. At first making $50 seemed crazy, then a couple hundred felt awesome, and now it barely registers that I'm ahead close to $2k.
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06-09-2011 , 09:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCuster_911
Any bitcoin investing success stories itt?

I see when this was started the bitcoin was going at .7 the USD now at just around 30x, so a 43xish increase = fairly good ROI. After skimming most of the thread I see a lot of people who bought some early than sold than bought some more later when they realized it was gonna hit a spike...

Anybody who bought a decent amount in the beginning and is now in really good shape?

Also, surely the increase in bit coins now is just because of their recent exposure and at some point in the near(?) future we should see a leveling off or decline?
Here were my first trades on mtgox:

12/24/10 10:24 Bought BTC 149.03 for 0.2449 149.025 -36.495
12/27/10 13:37 Bought BTC 293.08 for 0.2537 293.083 -74.369
12/27/10 18:31 Bought BTC 417.27 for 0.2567 417.27 -107.1
12/27/10 23:36 Bought BTC 74.51 for 0.2667 74.513 -19.875
12/28/10 14:06 Bought BTC 47.69 for 0.2629 47.688 -12.537
12/28/10 14:07 Bought BTC 129.16 for 0.2629 129.155 -33.956

Of course I have sold a few, and actually bought a lot more closer to $1.

But 1,110.74 BTC for $284.35 is not too shabby.

You think it is hard to fund mtgox now...back then it was liberty reserve and bank wire only, and bank wire took some days playing email tag with Jed, haha. The good old days.
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06-09-2011 , 09:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phone Booth
I'm impressed that some of you anarchist/libertarian types are finally doing something to promote your ideals, even if it is mere speculation. A successful distributed platform for anonymous internet/digital cash is at the top of my list of important anarchist/libertarian projects.



With that said, bitcoin is only real cash if it maintains stable value in relation to goods and services that are traded using it. Presently as far as I can tell, nothing is priced in bitcoin - everything is priced in dollars or some other currency, with bitcoin (plus infrastructrue) used merely as an unreliable proxy and a payment processing system. Largely bitcoin is used as a volatile, anonymous way to transport dollars or other currencies - this is distinct from bitcoin itself being used to price things. Then bitcoin, for the moment, is a lot more like a suitcase used to hold cash, than the cash inside of it. I suppose there's some value there, but the only advantage of bitcoin over conventional money transportation mechanism is anonymity. It already costs basically nothing to move large amounts of money instantly across continents. Personally, I'd steer clear of investing in anything that has no legitimate purpose outside of assisting criminal activities or otherwise evading authority but YMMV.

Moreover, I cannot see a way out of it, that is, a way for bitcoin to achieve the level of price stability so that it has use outside of evasion of authority. There are two fundamental problems - 1) its value is largely determined by its popularity (or expected level of it) and 2) there's a huge disparity between the current level of popularity and the expected level of popularity. These are two large sources of volatility. Dependence on popularity and dependence on whimsical expectations. There are other problems with a fixed money supply, but those were largely hashed out here:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/11...regime-397397/

In the long-run, if you believe in some sort of growth constraint, eventually fixed money supply could make sense (meh not really in a digital sense), but it has to take into account growth of the currency use as well as economic growth - you can't fix your money supply, while your currency is still growing, even if there's no economic growth. I understand that a lot of you are excited to see bitcoin move up a great deal in price - this is great if you're a speculator, but this is terrible if you want bitcoin to succeed as a currency. You want people to be able to do accounting in your currency and have the resulting statements to mean something. You want 1 "bitcoin" to have some semantic meaning beyond how many dollars you can get for it at the moment.

Is it still possible to create bitcoin 2 that alleviates these concerns? I can think of some features that would help:

1) Money supply growth that corresponds to usage growth and technological improvements
2) Some kind of obsolescence of old money, either through depreciation, money supply growth or both.
3) Recursive/federated infrastructure - bitcoin networks within bitcoin networks. And each network within the meta network must be allowed to work differently from other networks, while allowing for easy interchangeability.
4) Ability for the money distribution to reflect or correspond to real world distribution of power and value. This means much more value needs to accrue to those who maintain the network and otherwise provide the infrastructure. Money needs to reflect the underlying reality. Bitcoin does this to some degree, but quite poorly and worse and worse as time goes on (charging one-time transaction fees is not enough, because it's those who are hoarding the money that the system is supporting).

One way to start this would be to create a meta-bitcoin network that would treat the current instance of the bitcoin network as a single node within it, and create other networks with different attributes, rules, etc, and experiment, while allowing for some sort of federated interoperability. It's a lot easier said than done, but possible. Depending on my level of free time, this also has a small chance of being my next big project.
I agree with some of your ideas, but part of the reason some people have adopted bitcoin leading to its popularity is because the supply is fixed. I think a lot of people here know bitcoin is in a bubble and will either crash or become a whole lot more useful. In any case, the price will be stabilizing eventually after this early adopter phase.

Regarding your improvements to the currency: Have you considered the possibility of a digital psuedo-anonymous currency whose value is tied to the dollar?
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06-09-2011 , 09:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by shermanash
Re: if new competitors don't start popping up soon
here comes TradeHill

site looks pretty slick, not sure where its based out of, and plans to support tons of different currencies, which is awesome.

from @tradehill on twitter:

(i'm not affiliated obv)
Apparently it's still a percentage based rake. From reading the faq it's not clear how much he is charging, quoting a range from .25% to .75%. Also the spread there is 3btc hahaha.
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