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Old Yesterday, 07:21 PM   #32026
RunItPony
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

The problem with someone like Craig wright is that he can continually and indefinitely use sophistry and rhetoric and make it appear like he is being both eccentric but sincere and thus he can continue to control the dialogue with no recourse for those that can obviously see that he has no intention of anything but disruption.
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Old Yesterday, 07:30 PM   #32027
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by RunItPony View Post
It's really a shameful disruption especially when no respected person or contributor in the field actually believes the claim.
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Old Yesterday, 07:51 PM   #32028
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Why did he do this?

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Old Yesterday, 07:57 PM   #32029
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by RunItPony View Post
The problem with someone like Craig wright is that he can continually and indefinitely use sophistry and rhetoric and make it appear like he is being both eccentric but sincere and thus he can continue to control the dialogue with no recourse for those that can obviously see that he has no intention of anything but disruption.
The guy is an enormous dick and a problem whether or not he's Satoshi. And I agree generally that as a matter of pure practicality against potentially infinite false claims you have to force a "put up or shut up" then move on. As you say, it's disruptive.

For the purposes of this thread I don't really care about any of that.

All I care about is correcting idiotic notions that he's definitely not Satoshi, when in fact the evidence suggests it's somewhere in double digit percentages that he is.

And what it would mean if he is. If Craig Wright is even 10% likely to be Satoshi you should be putting a substantial amount of money in Bitcoin SV at $64 here because it's going to be 100x that, as the real Satoshi can destroy bitcoin at any time he chooses.

Perhaps it's even him selling now (his later mined coins, leaving the early genesis block for a bombshell when Bitcoin SV is ready), which has caused the prolonged drop/sell pressure in BTC
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Old Yesterday, 08:02 PM   #32030
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

See the real problem with Wright, or people like Wright, is that no amount of credible refutation can make him concede because he is really just trying to catch attention and disrupt otherwise intelligent dialogues and productive discussion. So anytime you put up obviously credible evidence (ie wikileaks) to the contrary he can EASILY just change the goal post slightly using another completely absurd fabrication.

Then he couples this with "related evidence" himself giving people that are just passing by the impression that there is an intelligent and sincere debate happening with credible points on both sides.

You can't actually beat him using logic because he is not actually sincerely participating in debate.

It's more difficult for the causal observer to notice too as Wright will concede small obvious points (whether those points run counter to his previous narrative or not or whether he will counter the points himself in the future anyways)

Edit: another observable technique is that Wright will obsessively try to participate in forums and discussions that are really about bitcoin but he will continually try to push the narrative what is not bitcoin (ie bitcoin sv). Again giving causal observers a false impression that there is a two sided "debate" happening.

Last edited by RunItPony; Yesterday at 08:07 PM.
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Old Yesterday, 08:23 PM   #32031
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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And what it would mean if he is. If Craig Wright is even 10% likely to be Satoshi you should be putting a substantial amount of money in Bitcoin SV at $64 here because it's going to be 100x that, as the real Satoshi can destroy bitcoin at any time he chooses.
TS I really really hope you are loading up on SV. That would make my year so far. Also lol at real Satoshi being able to destroy bitcoin. Even if real Satoshi, Craig OR other, positively identified themself/themselves and said "f bitcoin. we have 2m. Fire sale. We hate it, it sucks" they sell like 10% of total supply and bitcoin carries on.
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Old Yesterday, 08:34 PM   #32032
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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TS I really really hope you are loading up on SV. That would make my year so far. Also lol at real Satoshi being able to destroy bitcoin. Even if real Satoshi, Craig OR other, positively identified themself/themselves and said "f bitcoin. we have 2m. Fire sale. We hate it, it sucks" they sell like 10% of total supply and bitcoin carries on.
No he doesn't actually have to believe that SV is superior in any way for it to be used a disruptive conversational device (nor is he stupid enough to believe this).

Just keep asserting the bitcoin SV is the REAL Satoshi's vision and bitcoin is simply a trap for ignorant people. Its not extinguishable with logic and reason.

As he claims "It's genius".
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Old Yesterday, 09:00 PM   #32033
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

The London Review of Books did a fascinating in-depth article in 2016 about the weird life of Craig Wright/Satoshi since his outing. I'd be surprised if any thinking person reads this and comes away thinking it's <50% that Craig Wright is Satoshi.

http://archive.fo/kjuLi#selection-511.0-511.14

It's a fascinating story as weird as a Murakami novel. Life can get really strange when you're a broken individual.
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Old Yesterday, 09:12 PM   #32034
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

All he has to do is keep injecting fanciful claims no matter how absurd and as long as the sincere participants are just trying to counter the sophistry with logic and reason they validate the "argument" such that the strategy is extremely effective and maximally disruptive. Especially with the causal observer.
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Old Yesterday, 09:20 PM   #32035
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

RunItPony, I think if you're as familiar with this topic as you seem to be, you know that Craig Wright is Satoshi. That link I put above is an excellent read - the true and totally bizarre and slightly tragic story of Satoshi.

Quote:
The next day, Wednesday, 4 May, Matthews was at Wright’s house organising the movement of coin. The new (and final) proof session was intended to blow away the doubts created by the first. Many commentators felt it was too late, that Wright was beyond the pale, but Matthews and MacGregor had agreed with Andresen that the movement of coin, to Andresen and also to Cellan-Jones at the BBC, would undo the damage. Wright spoke to Andresen on the phone from his house – Andresen was in New York – and told him he was worried about a security flaw in the early blockchain, a problem in the way those first blocks were constructed that would make it dangerous for him to move coin, exposing him to exploitation or theft. My sources say that Andresen understood the problem and confirmed that it was all right, it had been fixed. But Wright continued to worry and was showing great reluctance about offering the final proof. Then he left the room abruptly and didn’t come back.
The next day, he sent me an email. It linked to an article headlined ‘UK Law Enforcement Sources Hint at Impending Craig Wright Arrest’. The article suggested that the father of bitcoin might be liable, under the Terrorism Act, for the actions of people who used bitcoin to buy weapons. Under the link, Wright had written an explanation: ‘I walk from 1 billion or I go to jail. I never wanted to be out, but if I prove it, they destroy me and my family. I am the source of terrorist funds as bitcoin creator or I am a fraud to the world. At least a fraud is able to see his family. There is nothing I can do.’
He was devastated. He was the runner who failed twenty yards short of the finishing tape, the man who froze at the moment of truth, and started walking backwards. He said he feared prosecution on the one hand and humiliation on the other. The borstal boy in Alan Sillitoe’s ‘The Loneliness of the Long Distance Runner’ comes from a family who make much of running, ‘especially running away from the police’. He hates being understood, feels authority is only there to grind you down, and holds on to his essential privacy, knowing ‘they can’t make an X-ray of our guts to find out what we’re telling ourselves.’ The boy lives on his own terms, which means not faking it for power, even when the pressure is high and the rewards are obvious. So he refuses to win.
This is the weirdest real life story I've ever read. Weirder than most fiction. Highly recommended reading.

When you're broken as a kid nothing every quite comes together to make you whole, and the story of Satoshi (aka Craig Wright) is like a Greek tragedy. And the dumb bitcoin bulls here, who love Satoshi and his invention, are openly calling the real, actual Satoshi (Craig Wright) a fraud/faketoshi. You couldn't make this **** up.
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Old Yesterday, 09:34 PM   #32036
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Its a really effective strategy-just keep putting up easily refutable and already refuted claims (with interjected half truths) and give the opponents the feeling of accomplishment from countering them. It's never ending on this level. It's "genius".

And when people point out the sophistry...just keep steering the false dialogue to the refutation of the ridiculous assertions and claims.

Impossible for the causal observer to notice....and thus reason cannot gather a majority
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Old Yesterday, 09:38 PM   #32037
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by RunItPony View Post
Its a really effective strategy-just keep putting up easily refutable and already refuted claims (with interjected half truths) and give the opponents the feeling of accomplishment from countering them. It's never ending on this level. It's "genius".

And when people point out the sophistry...just keep steering the false dialogue to the refutation of the ridiculous assertions and claims.

Impossible for the causal observer to notice....and thus reason cannot gather a majority
I just posted a link with interest tidbits since this is the bitcoin thread and the question of whether Wright is Satoshi has major investment consequences (imo).

Meanwhile, I just read about 100 Craig Wright tweets and your posts sounds exactly like him. High-horse assertion with no interest in engaging on low level facts. You have 13 posts. I don't know who you are but you haven't earned the right to bare assert around here. It's also not helpful or informative.
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Old Yesterday, 10:13 PM   #32038
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
I just posted a link with interest tidbits since this is the bitcoin thread and the question of whether Wright is Satoshi has major investment consequences (imo).

Meanwhile, I just read about 100 Craig Wright tweets and your posts sounds exactly like him. High-horse assertion with no interest in engaging on low level facts. You have 13 posts. I don't know who you are but you haven't earned the right to bare assert around here. It's also not helpful or informative.
Its unclear what you mean when you compare me to the person that you think is Satoshi.

I haven't made any assertions. I am just bringing awareness to the sophistry technique that Wright uses to stay relevant and disruptive when he has no sincere intent in participating in reasonable dialogue or furthering the discussion.

Just keep throwing already exposed disinformation into the subject and see who will validate the efforts by disproving it.
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Old Yesterday, 10:49 PM   #32039
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Lol, Satoshi Dundee claimed to have owned Bitcoin which were later proven to be MtGox addresses.

But it's hilarious to see Tooth get bamboozled by a con artist.
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Old Yesterday, 11:06 PM   #32040
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

It's very simple - sure he was around in the "early days" but so were a handful of others like finney. That does NOT mean he's satoshi.

There is a very simple proof of Saotshi - sign a message with the private key of the genesis block. Not an 'early' block - just block #1. This doesn't take a roadshow or handwaving or patents or backdated emails/blog posts. It can be done from anywhere, just a simple "I am satoshi, craig wright" message - the whole world can verify it.

He's a charlatan and even Gavin admits he was conned.
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Old Yesterday, 11:09 PM   #32041
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Lol, Satoshi Dundee claimed to have owned Bitcoin which were later proven to be MtGox addresses.

But it's hilarious to see Tooth get bamboozled by a con artist.
Congrats on getting conned by a fake con. Do you even level 2, bro?

RunItPony seems to realize that Craig is Satoshi. He just doesn't like the guy and his disruptive attitude, with good reason.
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Originally Posted by protonewb View Post
It's very simple - sure he was around in the "early days" but so were a handful of others like finney. That does NOT mean he's satoshi.

There is a very simple proof of Saotshi - sign a message with the private key of the genesis block. Not an 'early' block - just block #1. This doesn't take a roadshow or handwaving or patents or backdated emails/blog posts. It can be done from anywhere, just a simple "I am satoshi, craig wright" message - the whole world can verify it.

He's a charlatan and even Gavin admits he was conned.
Do you consider any possibilities in which real Satoshi would either a) not want to or b) is not able to? I think they're greater than 50% given how this all played out.

Craig Wright must be one hell of a conman to get Gavin to vouch for him...surely someone so early on in the development process would know a real Satoshi from a fake one? Does this really smell right to you?
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Old Yesterday, 11:26 PM   #32042
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Gavin admitted that he thought craig would post a signed message from the genesis block publicly and he should not have vouched for craig without it - google it up.

So you are telling me you think satoshi (craig) LOST the privkey to the genesis block. Just loool, read the whitepaper again. Nobody who wrote that, or was part of writing that, would or could be that careless. Especially the genesis block with the bank-bailout message. When simple proof is available only a conman would rely on handwaving pseudo-babble explanations.

And yes, he's a hell of a conman (see the proven backdated emails/blog posts).
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Old Yesterday, 11:33 PM   #32043
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

You're reading a lot about Satoshi's psychology and conscientiousness from a technical document heavily edited by multiple authors over a period of months. I've known plenty of absent minded professors who write flawless and careful professional work.

There are heaps of possibilities besides a lost key, although that is definitely >10%. **** happens, y'know? Especially since they keys were worthless for years and computer hardware is unreliable.

I take it you didn't read the London Review of Books in depth interviews I linked from a reporter who followed Satoshi and the team around him for weeks. What happened with the private keys is pretty clear and laid out in extreme and interesting detail.

The people who think Craig isn't Satoshi simply don't know any facts around this. It's all there.
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Old Today, 12:13 AM   #32044
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

https://to****imes.com/craig-wright-...world-program/
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Old Today, 12:36 AM   #32045
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

who the fk is this toothsayer. he ***** think cw is satoshi. numbskull

sign the genesis block *****

wright is a f fraud and you actually fell for it. i have a bridge to sell you
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Old Today, 12:53 AM   #32046
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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who the fk is this toothsayer. he ***** think cw is satoshi. numbskull

sign the genesis block *****

wright is a f fraud and you actually fell for it. i have a bridge to sell you
What's worse? A made-up "coin" for $19,000 (now $3500 if you bought it a year and a bit ago!) or a made up bridge? The bridge analogy is unintentionally comical and on point. I chuckled.

And while I appreciate your impassioned and reasoned plea for me to see the situation as you do, I'm not sure I can.

Satoshi "proved" he was a fraud in the most ridiculous and obvious ways possible where it was certain to be caught and ridiculed.

I guess I shouldn't be surprised to find the majority can't go beyond first level thinking in thread about investing in a ponzi made-up asset (how's that $19,000 digital bridge going, bro? Did you think it would be worth $100K by now?), but I'm still a little shocked at how first level all the commentary is.
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Old Today, 02:43 AM   #32047
case3
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Taking sides/being a busto invested in what forks are 'good' and 'bad' is catnip for the parade of losers we see now in this thread. It is easy and requires no work:

-No need for actual (ie you could possibly create/understand transactions if given a reference implementation) technical understanding

-Can skip thinking out and understanding the underpinning game theoretical relationships

-Don't have to ever risk anything or think for yourself to come up with pricing models for the market


And it even comes with a huge upside, associate yourself with being 'smarter' and 'better' by parroting your side, casually and cool-y calling everyone else idiots, etc..
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Old Today, 03:28 AM   #32048
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

How is having $3500 worse than owning a bridge that doesn't exist?
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Old Today, 03:58 AM   #32049
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Thats the thing about the likes of Wright. He can keep himself the center of attention saying absurd claims that are already debunked. And as long as he can get suckers to continue to refute his bs-he owns the forum.
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