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Old 12-07-2018, 12:39 PM   #31501
Zenzor
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by cafepoker View Post
It seems disingenuous to isolate BTC from Usd/ fiat. The only reason people use BTC is because they loaded up with cash via bank transfer. Nobody in the normal world sees any value in. 005 BTC. That number means absolutely nothing without Usd to compare it to. So in fact BTC relies solely on fiat for now. Maybe someday people will start seeing. 0001 as an amount of BTC to buy a gallon of milk.
The whole "buy a coffee with Bitcoin" argument demonstrates that you don't understand the value proposition of Bitcoin.
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Old 12-07-2018, 12:55 PM   #31502
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

ATH open shorts on Finex, when Spoofy?
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:00 PM   #31503
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by Zenzor View Post
Quote:
It seems disingenuous to isolate BTC from Usd/ fiat. The only reason people use BTC is because they loaded up with cash via bank transfer. Nobody in the normal world sees any value in. 005 BTC. That number means absolutely nothing without Usd to compare it to. So in fact BTC relies solely on fiat for now. Maybe someday people will start seeing. 0001 as an amount of BTC to buy a gallon of milk.
The whole "buy a coffee with Bitcoin" argument demonstrates that you don't understand the value proposition of Bitcoin.
Well, I hope for your sake they ban bitcoin <--> fiat conversions worldwide. Then all the HODLers might get to appreciate "the value proposition of Bitcoin" in a more pure way than they are right now.
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:17 PM   #31504
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
Well, I hope for your sake they ban bitcoin <--> fiat conversions worldwide. Then all the HODLers might get to appreciate "the value proposition of Bitcoin" in a more pure way than they are right now.
Congrats on calling Bitcoin a bubble since $300
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Old 12-07-2018, 01:23 PM   #31505
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Old 12-07-2018, 01:26 PM   #31506
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Congrats on calling Bitcoin a bubble since $300
I explicitly said it wasn't bubble at $250, but a "strong buy" as black/gray market fundamentals supported that price as a floor. I certainly thought it was a bubble at $1500 though so that's an accurate characterization.

Congrats on feeling so ****ty at NOT calling a bubble at $20K and holding all the way down to $3200 that you have to lie about my positions on bitcoin

In the long run bitcoin classic is bull**** and will be replaced by a digital currency that actually works reliably for the very thing you think is irrelevant - buying coffee. The question is how much pain the hodlers will take before they tap out.
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Old 12-07-2018, 04:54 PM   #31507
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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I explicitly said it wasn't bubble at $250, but a "strong buy" as black/gray market fundamentals supported that price as a floor. I certainly thought it was a bubble at $1500 though so that's an accurate characterization.

Congrats on feeling so ****ty at NOT calling a bubble at $20K and holding all the way down to $3200 that you have to lie about my positions on bitcoin

In the long run bitcoin classic is bull**** and will be replaced by a digital currency that actually works reliably for the very thing you think is irrelevant - buying coffee. The question is how much pain the hodlers will take before they tap out.
As usual, you don't know what you're talking about and are spouting nonsense.

Classic butthurt nocoiner
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:44 PM   #31508
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

So you sold despite your long term view? You haven't owned bitcoins since 12/10? If you called a top then congrats.

Given your "nocoiner" insult I'm pretty sure you're not a nocoiner...which means I'm dead on that you're butthurt you lost most of the value and were too stupid to sell.

Vague posts about what might happen in the next cycle aren't buy or sell recommendations or anything except "yeah it's scary but I'm hodling".
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:50 PM   #31509
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

What % of bitcoin transaction volume is internally on these exchanges? Don't you get to the point eventually where it becomes a negative sum game like poker where the only winner is the house, due to the fees? Or is there actually a substantial amount of bitcoin activity of people actually sending it from wallet to wallet?
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Old 12-07-2018, 05:58 PM   #31510
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by OmgGlutten! View Post
Bitcoin got whacked?



(Can't seem to inline youtube videos "at current time" on 2p2, so: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mRkLE3rAwGE&t=55)

Juk
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Old 12-07-2018, 06:01 PM   #31511
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
What % of bitcoin transaction volume is internally on these exchanges? Don't you get to the point eventually where it becomes a negative sum game like poker where the only winner is the house, due to the fees? Or is there actually a substantial amount of bitcoin activity of people actually sending it from wallet to wallet?
0.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:01 PM   #31512
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

I think there is a general paralysis against selling by most who bought in. The path:

-buy in expecting it to go up a lot
-it goes up, 'confirming' the trade
-price crashes, opposing greed/worry forces stop them from trading
-vague belief that it has to up sometime so holding 'prevents' a mistake lets people avoid responsibility
-price falls so far any additional losses mean much less

If you felt BTC has a great long term potential, then this huge crash is the best possible thing for you. You get to 3-100x your coins without any risk, true believers measure their wealth in % of the coins.

Claiming a long term belief in BTC going up as an excuse to hold is therefore just an admission that you lack the ability to see basic, exceptionally obvious, repeating patterns. All this at the same time not perceiving this blindness as in any way effecting the accuracy of your model for predicting the far more complex outcome of a years long future.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:05 PM   #31513
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

That's a hell of a lot of words to say "if you're smart and a believer you should have sold high and now buy low"

Thanks for the expert tip!
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:13 PM   #31514
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

There's a poker term, called the threshold of pain, where players after they lose so much money, they stop thinking rationally about it and usually go on tilt. This has happened for many crypto people who are down 80% or whatever. But in this case their response is just to bag HODL since "I lost so much so who cares if I lose the rest."
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:21 PM   #31515
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

There are smart people in this thread with millions$ (at one point) stack of coins. They were early adopters and deeply involved and have huge confidence in their understanding of bitcoin. They didn't sell, why is this?

I think the answer defines a lot of the market. It can be crashed with less than 1% of the supply, yet these huge wallets just lie there.

You could watch buy walls on BFX at 10k, 6k, whatever. I don't get how whales could pass these up, dumping doesn't even hurt the rest of their stack since the value is ultimately only measured in liquidity on offer.
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:56 PM   #31516
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by case3 View Post
I think there is a general paralysis against selling by most who bought in. The path:

-buy in expecting it to go up a lot
-it goes up, 'confirming' the trade
-price crashes, opposing greed/worry forces stop them from trading
-vague belief that it has to up sometime so holding 'prevents' a mistake lets people avoid responsibility
-price falls so far any additional losses mean much less

If you felt BTC has a great long term potential, then this huge crash is the best possible thing for you. You get to 3-100x your coins without any risk, true believers measure their wealth in % of the coins.

Claiming a long term belief in BTC going up as an excuse to hold is therefore just an admission that you lack the ability to see basic, exceptionally obvious, repeating patterns. All this at the same time not perceiving this blindness as in any way effecting the accuracy of your model for predicting the far more complex outcome of a years long future.
Honestly this sums me up pretty well. I was treating btc like a Vanguard index fund. I know I don't have an edge trading so I just decided to sit there because I was afraid to make a mistake. I researched the tech, believed in the future use case and held all through this. My average buy was under $2k and I didnt dump anything in after the big run up, but I feel like a jackass for not locking up a few years 'salary'. I dont see a point in selling now. If it is being manipulated it has to swing the other way eventually. I may even prepare some buy orders for sub $2500
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Old 12-07-2018, 07:58 PM   #31517
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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If it is being manipulated it has to swing the other way eventually. I may even prepare some buy orders for sub $2500
Who and what and why and how is someone manipulating bitcoin lower?? Higher is easy to do and makes sense, but lower?
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:12 PM   #31518
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

itt: the ability to see basic, exceptionally obvious, repeating patterns after they happen
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:14 PM   #31519
Zenzor
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by case3 View Post
There are smart people in this thread with millions$ (at one point) stack of coins. They were early adopters and deeply involved and have huge confidence in their understanding of bitcoin. They didn't sell, why is this?

I think the answer defines a lot of the market. It can be crashed with less than 1% of the supply, yet these huge wallets just lie there.

You could watch buy walls on BFX at 10k, 6k, whatever. I don't get how whales could pass these up, dumping doesn't even hurt the rest of their stack since the value is ultimately only measured in liquidity on offer.
The only people who say most of poker's early adopters HODL'd from moon to gloom are early nevercoiners like Toothsayer who can't handle the fact that they missed out while "dumb people who buy bitcoin" sold their bags at +5-10x his top call.

edit: Also, many of the early posters of whom you speak lost their coins on Gox.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:17 PM   #31520
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
Who and what and why and how is someone manipulating bitcoin lower?? Higher is easy to do and makes sense, but lower?
I'm not certain it's being manipulated to such a degree that its causing this cataclysmic collapse. But if it is, then it would be accomplished by whales shorting then dumping on the open market. They can repurchase at a later date OTC without driving price up, and then repeat the process. Many of these futures markets are paper traded with no btc actually exchanging hands.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:25 PM   #31521
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by case3 View Post
There are smart people in this thread with millions$ (at one point) stack of coins. They were early adopters and deeply involved and have huge confidence in their understanding of bitcoin. They didn't sell, why is this?
No, there aren't. All the smart people sold at least a decent chunk of their holdings even if they're super confident long term.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:50 PM   #31522
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
So you sold despite your long term view? You haven't owned bitcoins since 12/10? If you called a top then congrats.

Given your "nocoiner" insult I'm pretty sure you're not a nocoiner...which means I'm dead on that you're butthurt you lost most of the value and were too stupid to sell.

Vague posts about what might happen in the next cycle aren't buy or sell recommendations or anything except "yeah it's scary but I'm hodling".
You just chewed me out 10 posts ago for saying to another guy he should have sold at 18k. What a hypocritical lying turd you are. Pathetic.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:52 PM   #31523
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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No, there aren't. All the smart people sold at least a decent chunk of their holdings even if they're super confident long term.
Wow. Three logical contradictions in two sentences. Impressive.
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Old 12-07-2018, 08:54 PM   #31524
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd View Post
What % of bitcoin transaction volume is internally on these exchanges? Don't you get to the point eventually where it becomes a negative sum game like poker where the only winner is the house, due to the fees? Or is there actually a substantial amount of bitcoin activity of people actually sending it from wallet to wallet?
Fees go to miners. The reason its negative sum is because people lose bitcoin by sending it to non addresses or lose their keys rendering the bitcoin lost forever.

The vast majority of coin movements are non transactional.
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Old 12-07-2018, 10:22 PM   #31525
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Bitcoin is worth the value of the black/gray market transactions globally the are conducted electronically.
I just don't see this market going back to western union or something. I think many forget just how much of a pain in the ass depositing/withdrawing was from gambling sites post uigea let alone black friday. So there is some use for crypto. It is very unlikely to just disappear.

That being said i don't know what valuation that market supports. I think the legit/legal real world use cases for bitcoin have been mostly a bust.

We are still 1000% or so above the mid 2017 price level before the mania kicked in. So my guess is there is still some mania to unwind before we get down to the value that its value as a black market money transfer device supports. Alts are 99.9% fked.
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