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Old 02-23-2018, 06:04 AM   #28401
eddymitchel
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Your view on the topic is shortsighted.
If everybody does like you fees get higher overall, while I understand it's not your concern as an individual and the tradeoff is meaningless for you, the fee market getting lower benefits everyone but miners when people optimize, reducing your fee is like recycling.
The lower the fees people use, the lower they get when mempool diminish, the lower the fees the more adoption is possible, and bitcoin price increase.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:09 AM   #28402
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Tbh too many transactions getting stuck because people are lowballing too much could be detrimental to the mempool if we get a backlog of underestimated transactions as well but right now it is a non-issue.
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:19 AM   #28403
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Thremp,

If you ask me at 6pm if the grocery store is open and I tell you yes, and then you go there at 2am to find it closed, are you going to cry that I gave you bad information?

(Don't bother answering. I know you'd cry like a baby, but I'm only posing the question to prove a point.)
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Old 02-23-2018, 08:40 AM   #28404
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Pete been posting hot fire of late just about all over this section
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:39 AM   #28405
bgordon
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Thremp did that soccer bet happen?
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:23 AM   #28406
Mihkel05
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

stinkypete,

Everyone knew you were a coward, but this level of dishonety is pretty absurd. Are you now claiming your advice is only intended till the next block comes out or whoever is running the website you're looking at updates it?

bgordon,

Maybe! I always get a good laugh at some of the completely idiotic things I've done in the past, which is why I asked him to cite!
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Old 02-23-2018, 06:22 PM   #28407
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Ledger getting a UI update and desktop app support in the next couple of months. Looks nice and they rolled all the separate chrome extensions into one rather than having a Bunch of different aps.
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Old 02-23-2018, 07:46 PM   #28408
Gamblor777
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Stinky, any way you could go more in depth what is driving these fees? I saw an estimator that had it up to 140 sats/byte for next block last night (I ended up having to pay 50sats/byte to get confirmed) and now an estimator is saying the next block fee is back down to 14 sats/byte? Is it really fluctuating this much over such short time frames?
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Old 02-23-2018, 09:31 PM   #28409
5 south
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

So what is bitcoin going to be used for? I don't want to have to know what a memepool is or how many sats per byte I need to pay to make my transfer go through on a day by day basis.
Can't they fix this s**tcoin already?
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:01 PM   #28410
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by 5 south View Post
So what is bitcoin going to be used for? I don't want to have to know what a memepool is or how many sats per byte I need to pay to make my transfer go through on a day by day basis.
Can't they fix this s**tcoin already?
They did fix it. It's called Bitcoin Cash.
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Old 02-23-2018, 10:26 PM   #28411
Velocity
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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They did fix it. It's called Bitcoin Cash.
LOL
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Old 02-23-2018, 11:08 PM   #28412
Mat Cauthon
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor777 View Post
Stinky, any way you could go more in depth what is driving these fees? I saw an estimator that had it up to 140 sats/byte for next block last night (I ended up having to pay 50sats/byte to get confirmed) and now an estimator is saying the next block fee is back down to 14 sats/byte? Is it really fluctuating this much over such short time frames?
Next block minimum fees are always tricky and seldom important. The main reason for both of those things are one and the same, namely that the time to the next block is probabilistic. On average it takes 10 minutes for a new block to be found, but it is not too uncommon that it takes up to two hours. Since you're fine with waiting that long anyway (even if you would prefer quicker), having to wait two or three blocks for your first confirmation should not matter very much.
When blocks take longer to be found the new transactions people want to send don't get processed, and the queue gets longer. When the queue gets longer more people are willing to pay more to jump to the head of the line, meaning they are willing to pay a higher fee. This escalates rather quickly when block space demand outstrips throughput, especially since most wallets put a high emphasis on getting included in the next or next two blocks.
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Old Yesterday, 09:46 AM   #28413
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

When you all talk about the fee for a transaction is that a transaction that has already been agree upon by you and another person or are we talking about a limit order you are putting out there?
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Old Yesterday, 10:07 AM   #28414
Mihkel05
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
When you all talk about the fee for a transaction is that a transaction that has already been agree upon by you and another person or are we talking about a limit order you are putting out there?
wtf
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Old Yesterday, 10:49 AM   #28415
Mat Cauthon
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by bahbahmickey View Post
When you all talk about the fee for a transaction is that a transaction that has already been agree upon by you and another person or are we talking about a limit order you are putting out there?
Transaction fees on the blockchain, not conversion fees on an exchange.
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Old Yesterday, 07:14 PM   #28416
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by Mat Cauthon View Post
Next block minimum fees are always tricky and seldom important. The main reason for both of those things are one and the same, namely that the time to the next block is probabilistic. On average it takes 10 minutes for a new block to be found, but it is not too uncommon that it takes up to two hours.
Next block is pretty important. If you're not getting into the next block with high probability your chances of getting stuck for a long time are pretty high. But there's a lot of variables and it's all fairly complicated. If you want to be smart about it you have to look at what's happened in the preceding hours. If blocks have been processed at an unusually high frequency and you choose a fee that doesn't get you into the next block there's a very good chance you'll get stuck for a long time. On the other hand if there's a buildup in the memepool due to blocks being found less frequently leading up to your transaction, a fee that doesn't get you into the next block might still have a very high probability of being mined within the hour.

Also, 2 hours between blocks is incredibly rare.

If you use one of the few wallets with replace by fee (like Thremp pretends to even though he doesn't use bitcoin) it's not an issue, but none of the hardware wallets support it afaik. RBF is interesting cuz it's obviously great for bitcoin usability and keeping transaction costs within reason, but it's terrible for miners so there's a strong incentive to oppose it.
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Old Yesterday, 07:18 PM   #28417
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamblor777 View Post
Stinky, any way you could go more in depth what is driving these fees? I saw an estimator that had it up to 140 sats/byte for next block last night (I ended up having to pay 50sats/byte to get confirmed) and now an estimator is saying the next block fee is back down to 14 sats/byte? Is it really fluctuating this much over such short time frames?
Transactions drive fees. Yeah, it fluctuates that much. 140sat/byte really isn't all that much. Don't think of it as 140 being 10x as much as 14... think of it in cents/dollars. People (and wallets that set fees) are willing to pay $5 no problem when there's a little congestion.
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Old Yesterday, 07:31 PM   #28418
Zenzor
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

https://bitcoinfees.earn.com/

TX's are basically free rn.

I read some convincing evidence that large exchanges, particularly Coinbase, were responsible for the recent mempool backlog by not properly batching transactions and consolidating UTXO's.
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Old Yesterday, 07:36 PM   #28419
Mat Cauthon
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by stinkypete View Post
Also, 2 hours between blocks is incredibly rare.
Depends on what you mean by incredibly rare. It's happened to me more than once.

Quote:
Originally Posted by stinkypete View Post
If blocks have been processed at an unusually high frequency and you choose a fee that doesn't get you into the next block there's a very good chance you'll get stuck for a long time. On the other hand if there's a buildup in the *mempool due to blocks being found less frequently leading up to your transaction, a fee that doesn't get you into the next block might still have a very high probability of being mined within the hour.
You kind of made my point here. If you set it too low to even get included when the high fee transactions have been decimated during the last hours, then you're in trouble. But if you go with a fee has been included at many different times during the last hours/days, then you're pretty safe even if the miners are unlucky for a while.

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Originally Posted by stinkypete View Post
but none of the hardware wallets support it afaik
Trezor does if you use Electrum.
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Old Yesterday, 07:43 PM   #28420
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by Mat Cauthon View Post
Depends on what you mean by incredibly rare. It's happened to me more than once.
It should happen once every 3 years or so according to the math. Not sure what actual results have been.

Quote:
Trezor does if you use Electrum.
did not know that, thanks
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Old Yesterday, 08:11 PM   #28421
Mat Cauthon
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Originally Posted by stinkypete View Post
It should happen once every 3 years or so according to the math. Not sure what actual results have been.
You're right, I should probably have used one hour instead of two to make my point, wouldn't have made a difference. When I think about it, I think it happened during the Bcash EDA shenanigans, when I wasn't paying attention.

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did not know that, thanks
Np . If you also want to use your own node, you could set up an Electrum Personal Server.
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Old Yesterday, 10:26 PM   #28422
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Re: Bitcoins - digital currency

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Old Yesterday, 11:12 PM   #28423
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