“If you don’t believe it or don’t get it, I don’t have the time to try to convince you, sorry.”

— Satoshi Nakamoto

not quite as groundbreaking as your just discovering of the "question/answer" format.

no idea why you can't see the importance of that.

Was he talking about bitcoin or because bitcoin was worth 0$ for 18 month
(instead of 1 month or w.e number u want to put it )
it’s add value ?

I see no correlation at all between 0$ Value of an asset for couple month with adding value shrug.

You just showed visually what I already said, we had bull/bear markets before. My question was what makes you so sure 5th bull run is coming? You do realize theres a huge difference in macroeconomic trends today and 2010-2020. No more zero to low interest rates, no more stimmies, no more throwing money at everything with a green candle and scribbled TA. Also with demise of CEXs, no more Matt Damon calling you a pussy in Super Bowl ads. I know a sucker is born every minute, but for a ponzi wave of that magnitude you do really need a lot of suckers.


BTW, last bull run turned out to be meh, every previous one went like 100x gain - 80% crash so you are still left with 10-15x gains after crash. 2018-2020 average was what, 8k? Now at 16k you just doubled up.

If the next bull run does happen but it does not break $69k, would your stance on Bitcoin change at all? How would you explain that? I know you think this is impossible, you said your conservative guess for last bull run was $250k lmao, so you are already detached from reality.

Wanna go back to this thread last 18 months and for every post/prediction that I got right you pay me $1k, for every post/prediction you got right I pay you $1k?

One way that it is relevant is the whole commodity vs security debate. I could practically care less. But the US regulators have their teeth in the issue.

A security would fall under the responsibility of the SEC. A digital commodity however is something entirely different.

You had asked whether it's happened 2-3x now and I was just correcting you that it's happened 4x now which is not insignificant when discussing small sample sizes. Everything about the current bear market feels nearly identical to those of 2018 and 2014. I wasn't sentient for the 2012 bear market but my guess is it felt pretty similar to the subsequent ones.

I'm not sure a 5th bull run is coming. That's just my personal belief based on the behavior of buyers/hodlers, on-chain indicators, crypto twitter sentiment, the continual expansion and investment into the infrastructure of the industry, and the general fear/greed behaviors that drive the market. Smart money is and will continue to buy the bear market lows and in a few years some impetus will kick off the next bull market driving in the retail FOMO money and history will repeat (in my opinion).

The last "blow off top" was underwhelming yes but I don't think ephemeral peaks are the yardstick to be measuring with. There are much better indicators you should be looking at such as annual lows, cycle low vs. last cycle (ie: 15.5k for 2022-2023 vs. 3.2k for 2018-2019), average daily volume, average daily price, 200-week moving average, etc. All of those are on continuous upward marches which is the signal cutting through the noise.

I have no idea what the next top will be. Based on this cycle I'll toss out 160k but it's still a small asset in the grand scheme of things driven by larger macro factors. If the next top doesn't break 69k, well I'll cross that bridge when we get there. If you want receipts I will gladly go back and find my posts saying to prepare for another brutal -80% bear market in 2022.

Ok, make it 4, the reason I said 2-3 because nobody measures AAPL gains from the day Steves had it running in the garage, that's why I don't think pre 2011 is relevant since it's equivalent to pre-IPO for stocks and was years away from going mainstream as an investment.

Still, all 4 happened in parabolic run on pretty much everything from 2010-2021, expecting the same going forward is naive to say the least.



This is spot on, this was my point from day 1 in this thread, impetus for a ponzi wave is mass market manipulation, wash trading and stable coin scams run by exchange owners. Result if peak FOMO when people sell their real estate, take out 20% apr loans, sell their cars, take out HELOC to buy magical coins. The whole things eventually and inevitably collapses and the scammers run away with real money. You know, the same FIAT they've been twitting how useless it is. History might repeat, a sucker is born every minute, first mainstream Ponzi happened over a 100 years ago and people still fall for Bitconnect, CoinFlex, 20% risk free stablecoins, crypto.com 30% cash back or whatever the number was.

So BTC is the last startup or open-source project the world will see?

Nice time selecting. Why not go back 9 years?

It is not time selecting, it is when I started posting ITT, how can I go back 9 years?

"The older it gets, the earlier we are. Few understand this Bitcoin concept of time." You answered the question in the past.

are you incredibly dense or intentionally trolling?

this is a thread about BTC and digital assets, not linux or python.

people expended electricity for 18 months to mine a "worthless" BTC token with no expectation for profit. they just found the concept interesting.

99.99% of crypto projects that launch today have some combination of VC seed funding, a foundation team, and token allocations designed to enrich early investors and founders (ie: VC's seed a project at $0.001/token and the first exchange traded price is $0.100/token for a 100x return; founders keep 20% of token supply).

16% of SOL's supply was seeded at $0.04/token. the first exchange price was $0.95 (24x return). the current price of $13.50 is a 337x return, and the ATH of $260 was a 6500x return in less than 4 years from the seed round.

I get what you are saying. Bitcoin was novel in its creation. The intentions of its early participants "pure" in the sense they just thought it was cool. You will never have that scenario again naturally. A dev might try to re-create that spirit, but it will always refer back to bitcoin.

BTC is an open-source project. Open-source projects start with a value of zero but then spawn markets and companies worth billions, including Linux you mentioned, which unlike BTC actually serves a purpose in the economy.

lol ok thanks guy.

please continue with your WSJ snippets we all patiently wait for them every day and would be lost without you.

Will do. Continue with ideas like immaculate conception representing an investment thesis. I know I'd be lost without solid gems like that.

Don’t underestimate immaculate conception. Last cult that used it has 2b followers. We are still early.

Why are you guys even here? I mean really, do you get enjoyment out of this? This thread is for discussion of bitcoin and is usually full of interesting topics on the subject, but honestly all you certain few posters do currently is attempt dunk after dunk(and poorly) with the most pedestrian drooler takes ever. You bring literally zero to the table besides looking sad and pathetic.

We get it...ponzi wave, cult, rinse, repeat. Anything else, or just more of that? That's also rhetorical, I'm just going to put you all on ignore anyway. Congrats bobos.

Personally, I’m waiting for full blown Q Anon conspiracy theories why Bitcoin failed. We had a taste after FTX demise but it will get a lot better after a true crypto collapse.

Is this how you guys bring something to the table:



Or your very last post in this thread:



What is left to argue about Bitcoin? If you go to TSLA thread there is always discussion about the stock value based on earnings, macros, demand etc.

For Bitcoin, there’s none of that. Few pages ago you said Bitcoin is undervalued at $16k, I asked why you think it’s undervalued and what the true value is you had no response.

That's a strange question. You're asking why people share both positive and negative views on an open thread about a controversial subject like cryptocurrency? Do you ask that on every 2+2 thread? Or is it only on threads where you have a personal vested financial interest?

A lot of this stuff belongs in this thread: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/3...-fail-1810085/

For the most part I only check 2p2 late at night and sometimes early morning. Please use the report function liberally.

People such as yourself seem to only show up in controversial or polar threads similar to this one and for some reason only show your faces when your point is in the green. It's sort of annoying to be honest. Clearly, you enjoy to argue against the mass, and in this case the people in with higher support of bitcoin to try and prove your stance for some reason. Good for you.

Atleast Malaka argues within reasonable good faith even if he clearly sides to your polar side of things.

One thing Malaka brought up was the net negative of irreversible transactions within bitcoin. Personally even as someone that holds and owns bitcoin I think he has a very valid point on that matter. People make errors and even more than that people get can manipulated, played, stolen from, whether gun to head, whatever and in my opinion irreversible transactions is something to think about long term. It's a difficult topic though because if you start adding in centralization or reversible transactions in some way then you are opening up a whole other can of worms and possibilites on the other end or atleast something closer to the current system which can be manipulated in a fair bit of ways.

I feel he has a very valid point though bringing that up as a ? mark with the current way bitcoin works.

No, this was after I watched multiple people answer your 'questions' pretty succinctly, only to watch you continue with yet more ponzi wave and cult talk. You're a one-trick pony and constantly answering you over and over to only have you continue ponzi-waving and culting is pointless.

Why? Because you're not really here to learn anything about bitcoin or have good faith discussions, you're here to make jokes(and again...poorly).

That makes you no longer even worth the time, hence the nakamoto quote. Just another example of your disingenuous 'questioning'.

No, actually I'm all for that. Unfortunately, what you guys are doing is not that. You're just being bad-faith bad actors at this point.