Bitcoins - digital currency - Page 1912 - Business, Finances and Investing Forum

Probably because more than 90% of trading is made by algorithms and bots, buying/selling any news, so every information is incorporated quickly across all markets.

Crypto is a way more efficient market today than a couple of years ago, ask SBF....

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01-24-2022 , 10:55 PM

#47777

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cckid

I’ve been following various BTC threads, outlets, etc for some time now. Had a question that has continued perplexing my mind.

I’ve heard people say that Sovereigns and/or Countries are and have been getting in on the BTC bandwagon. Or that BTC adoption is just a matter of time for the above.

If this is true whether it be publicly or privately taking place and seeing how BTC has a limited supply. Why wouldn’t say the biggest and wealthiest countries just buy up all the remaining supply of BTC from the exchanges?

Which in turn would give them a strong position in a supposedly decentralized product?

They obviously have the fiat to make this happen whether working together or individually.

If BTC is such a game changer why isn’t this happening and why is there even a supply available on the exchanges?

Thoughts appreciated…..

- Apple has $200 billion in cash on it's balance sheet.
- 24% of the 18,939,187 circulating BTC supply is considered "liquid" meaning it has moved on-chain within the last 5 months.
- 24% of 18,939,187 is 4,545,405 BTC. At a current price of $36,235 per BTC, Apple has more cash than the entire market value of liquid BTC ($164,702,000,000).

Do you think Apple can simply place a market order on Coinbase for $164 billion worth of BTC? What do you think would happen to the price after the first billion or so was purchased? Do you remember what happened after Tesla announced they purchased $1.5 billion of BTC on Feb. 8, 2021?

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01-25-2022 , 12:40 AM

#47778

housenuts

1st Quartiled the 500

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 49,729

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Do you think Apple can simply place a market order on Coinbase for $164 billion worth of BTC? What do you think would happen to the price after the first billion or so was purchased? Do you remember what happened after Tesla announced they purchased $1.5 billion of BTC on Feb. 8, 2021?

Dunno if accurate, but ya all these big buys are OTC. Not exchange order book bids.

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01-25-2022 , 01:22 AM

#47779

TheGodson

veteran

Join Date: Mar 2013 Posts: 3,068

I'd guess Bitcoin has roughly a 94% chance of hitting 30k before 100k. It is at $36k right now.

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01-25-2022 , 01:31 AM

#47780

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by housenuts

Dunno if accurate, but ya all these big buys are OTC. Not exchange order book bids.

Right. Point was you can't just buy 4,500,000 BTC without affecting the price regardless if you are transacting on an exchange or OTC. OTC wouldn't even have access to anything close to that amount -- generally in the 10-20k BTC range.

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01-25-2022 , 01:50 AM

#47781

Cckid

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

-
- 24% of 18,939,187 is 4,545,405 BTC. At a current price of $36,235 per BTC, Apple has more cash than the entire market value of liquid BTC ($164,702,000,000).

So why is there roughly 4.5 million BTC still available to trade or purchase and hold. Because if BTC is such a potential game changer why doesn’t the available supply get bought up immediately as it becomes available?

Perhaps a similar example would be a few years ago if you logged onto JM Bullion or APMEX to buy gold most of the products said not available/sold out. Why doesn’t this happen for BTC?

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01-25-2022 , 05:01 AM

#47782

Mat Cauthon

adept

Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 1,147

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cckid

So then the price of gold was infinite? How come it isn't infinite now?

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01-26-2022 , 11:09 AM

#47783

Punker

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,352

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cckid

If BTC is such a game changer why isn’t this happening and why is there even a supply available on the exchanges? Thoughts appreciated…..

Others have made a lot of good points as to why, but this is also the reason for the crypto mantra of "we are still early". If you believe in BTC, the answer to this question is basically "when enough people realize it, there won't be any supply, but it just hasn't reached that stage yet."

To use an analogy, I think a lot of BTC maxis now are seeing it like settling the west; when North America was settled, it was cheap and easy to get massive amounts of land in the west if you were willing to take the chance. In many cases, that decision paid off with generational wealth for those who took it. Others got dysentery and died on the Oregon trail. No free lunches.

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01-26-2022 , 12:27 PM

#47784

tarheels2222

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 10,868

I certainly don't want dysentery.

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01-26-2022 , 01:15 PM

#47785

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,535

Solid analogy, in a sea of squishy analogies.

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01-26-2022 , 02:49 PM

#47786

marknfw

Gaming Commissioner

Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 13,089

Don't want to end up stuck in Oklahoma for the rest of your life either.

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01-26-2022 , 06:26 PM

#47787

Bluegrassplayer

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Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 38,735

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01-26-2022 , 07:10 PM

#47788

coordi

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: May 2007 Posts: 22,831

Quote:

Originally Posted by marknfw

Don't want to end up stuck in Oklahoma for the rest of your life either.

Just trying to enjoy a banana and we out here catching strays!

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01-27-2022 , 03:33 AM

#47789

27offsuit

actions have consequences!

Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 38,535

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluegrassplayer

I'm sure it's nothing.

This just got me to finally download a lightning wallet too.

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01-27-2022 , 04:01 PM

#47790

campfirewest

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2006 Posts: 9,937

It's fine that Bitcoin isn't good for transactions, as long I can shoot squirrels to get food.

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01-27-2022 , 08:41 PM

#47791

Cckid

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by Punker

That’s a fair enough response. But still doesn’t fully satisfy my mind for a definitive answer to my question that I have personally. Maybe I’m searching for a specific answer that doesn’t exist.

To expand on your reply regarding the masses don’t know about BTC once they do I would imagine the entry price for 99% of people will be out of reach for them with only the early adopters and wealthy participating in BTC. Which seems to be against part of what BTC stands to correct to a certain aspect.

But such is life.

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01-27-2022 , 09:20 PM

#47792

johnnyBuz

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Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cckid

That’s a fair enough response. But still doesn’t fully satisfy my mind for a definitive answer to my question that I have personally. Maybe I’m searching for a specific answer that doesn’t exist.

To expand on your reply regarding the masses don’t know about BTC once they do I would imagine the entry price for 99% of people will be out of reach for them with only the early adopters and wealthy participating in BTC. Which seems to be against part of what BTC stands to correct to a certain aspect.

What does this even mean? There's 8 billion people on earth. There's 21 million Bitcoin (and 4 million are lost or Satoshi's burned stash). You only need 0.002125 BTC to have your "fair share" which is $79 at the current price of $37,000.

It's not that people aren't aware of the existence of BTC, it's they just don't know or understand yet why they would need it. But adoption has been growing at a fairly constant 90%+ since inception. The early adopters had to endure the biggest risks so it's only natural they will see the biggest rewards.

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01-27-2022 , 10:22 PM

#47793

Cckid

centurion

Join Date: Oct 2016 Posts: 111

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnyBuz

Well out of 8 billion people only maybe 1 or 2 billion or so will partake in actual BTC ownership and even those people who do will be in at different entry points obviously. Which drives up their individual entry point based on when they get it in. At which point it could be too late for the average person financially speaking.

Which leads back to my original question why doesn’t the supply dry up based on the “scarcity “ factor alone.

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01-27-2022 , 10:49 PM

#47794

Didace

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 19,879

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cckid

Which drives up their individual entry point based on when they get it in. At which point it could be too late for the average person financially speaking.

You don't have to buy "a bitcoin". If bitcoin is successful and sees widespread adoption, people will just convert at the current price for whatever faction they need and go about their lives.

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01-28-2022 , 12:30 AM

#47795

Bighurt52235

I was born to eat hamburgers

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 24,218

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cckid

You, and the vast majority of the world, I'm sure, don't understand what exactly it is if it's viewed as expensive.

Would it be a pain to move the decimal over 8 places and sell mass sats to the masses?

The crumbs in my coinbase account are right now worth 55 cents. And that is 1,488 sats! Now those are something anyone can invest in.

Amusingly, at ATH those 1,488 sats were worth $1, so I have an easy barometer to measure the current price against.

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01-28-2022 , 01:15 AM

#47796

hansmolman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,846

Any thoughts on the trezor news?

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01-28-2022 , 01:17 AM

#47797

Bighurt52235

I was born to eat hamburgers

Join Date: Oct 2011 Posts: 24,218

Quote:

Originally Posted by hansmolman

Any thoughts on the trezor news?

Hadn't heard it!

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01-28-2022 , 01:23 AM

#47798

hansmolman

old hand

Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 1,846

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01-28-2022 , 01:24 AM

#47799

johnnyBuz

Carpal \'Tunnel

Join Date: Sep 2013 Posts: 7,563

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cckid

Well out of 8 billion people only maybe 1 or 2 billion or so will partake in actual BTC ownership and even those people who do will be in at different entry points obviously. Which drives up their individual entry point based on when they get it in. At which point it could be too late for the average person financially speaking.

Which leads back to my original question why doesn’t the supply dry up based on the “scarcity “ factor alone.

Why do you think adoption will magically stop at 1 billion when it's been growing >90% since inception? There's roughly 150 million BTC holders at this point. 1 billion should be reached by the end of 2024.

You think adoption will just cease at that point? Did adoption for any technology that ever reached >10% global adoption ever just stop at that point? Did the PC, internet/broadband or mobile magically stop at 10% global adoption?