Like Nokia???!!?

Please list Nokia's industry changing innovations. Now compare with Apple's.

Nokia isn't even spelled the same as Apple. Oh wait, yeah it is nevermind.

Did you really just compare Apple to Nokia without doing any research on Apple at all? No one cares what Apple is to you--it doesn't ****ing matter.

Apple to me is a business with a massive moat protecting a great balance sheet and income statement. Whether it's worth the present price is more debatable... But you just compared not apples and oranges (those are both still fruit) but cheese and tank treads.

Please stop trying to look at the stock market and have it reflect back your own personal opinions on consumer products... And then compare it to something you have (almost certainly losing) experience on.

A little research on Nokia's history would be wise. It was a very innovative company at one point. Actually for quite a while.

Massive moat? Definitely a moat, but time will tell whether it is just a Maginot Line.

They make regular computers that no one ever bought, best of class mp3 players that people used to buy, phones that function like computers that lots of people buy now, and computers that don't have keyboards that are very popular. Their developer program is best of class, but that means "top dog" not "permanent moat."

I like APPL, and think they have done things quite well (and have a quite decent chance of continuing to in the future), but they are just an electronic consumer products company.

Stop being cranky Linux was stupid of him to have mentioned, but Nokia wasn't bad.

Are you exaggerating to make a point here, or am I missing something?

You know someone who owns a mac?

(I was exaggerating to point out that they just make consumer electronics and popularity of such is ephemeral. Macs were popular for a week or so.)

The difference between Apple and all other consumer electronic companies is that Apple has a closed, proprietary ecosystem whose products are closely tied together. Rarely does someone own just a MacBook, or just an iPhone. One product always leads to another, and another. And once you own one, its hard to later switch back to a PC, or an android, etc because all your data and software is tied into the hardware.

Also Apple owns all pieces of their supply chain, which allows their massive, unheard-of margins.

This isn't news to anyone I'm sure, but I don't see how apple can be 'just a consumer electronics company' when they do these two things that set them so far apart from any other company in the world.

The tie between soft and hardware is an advantage ? For many its an handicapp !! I only can tell you that here in europe the first sold there
used iphones for a good price and buy androids...one of the reasons is
that apple dont use an open system.

I compared apple with nokia for one reason, Nokia here was also a company
that you must have a few years ago and now ?

Apple is a company like any other and margins will drop, look to cisco how large the pressure from new companys are. Lets say Apple as a brand could
get 15% more for there products than others but 35% like now ...i have my doubts.

And if we see a recession ? Where will i save money, food or unimportant electronic ?

Nokia and Apple are so different it's kinda stupid to even try to compare them. First of all Apple isn't just a handset business plus their whole business model is way different even in the handset business.

About the innovations of Nokia though, they kinda invented the whole technology on what cell phone usage is based on. That's why Apple (IIRC Apple pays about 1% per iPhone to Nokia) and others are paying royalties. True that they have been completely in the dark for the past 4 years or so though and I wouldn't bet for that to change in coming future, although they've come up with some nice designs in the past 6 months or so. And if you've followed Nokia they have had a lot of nice ideas and concepts that are sick cool but none of those innovations are seen in the actual phones that they produce. This seem to continue with their Windows Phones as they were as boring as you could expect. Shame..

Apple was allways innovative 15-20 years ago, but at that time they was not
so successfull. The question is value or brand, as soon as that goes to value
Apples margin will struggle.

I like apples innovations and they did a great job...but for me its more a famous history. I might be to old and might live in the wrong area and so i love value...

It's the brand, execution and the early recognizance of gadgets as status/fashion icons that made Apple unique. Aka, it's everything that Jobs made Apple do.

I for one believe Jobs would have never let iTunes Match and/or Siri go live in their current states.

That doesn't bode well for Apple's long term future although they're probably still good to go for the next 4-6 years (2 to 3 product cycles)

Does anyone think AAPL will ever get back to $425?

I don't get how it's up today in light of the news that the iPad is being pulled from store shelves in China.

It would take a major setback/disaster for AAPL to pull back to 425. I am long and just bought a couple 400 Jul 2012 options and a 400 Jan 2014 option.

Yes. I think it sees $425-430 before the year is over.

Rumors are that AAPL is going to start paying a dividend and/or possibly split.

Apple is a terrific company but it's over 30% above its 200 dma. We must have different definitions of 'disaster'.

Or both, in addition to other things. Market is expecting some information, negative or positive at the shareholder meeting coming up. Also, TC is speaking tomorrow at at GS conference. I doubt he'll announce a decision there but he will provide more insight into the company.

Since earnings, WS analysts have been bumping up their price targets as well. More should be coming shortly in the coming weeks/month as they announce the iPad 3 and those sales start to pour in.

The China/iPad thing is a worry but I don't think it will pan out and be a large issue. It seems like the market agrees...so far at least. Apple only has 5 retail stores in Mainland China and 1 on Hong Kong. Not all of them had the iPads pulled and I read it was more for show than a lastly "threat". Also, the stores that had them pulled are reported to still be selling them, just not displaying them.

the shares I had I sold them making some money.
Now I have a short term strategy, I believe apple is long term up but short term down,
so I have borrowed on margin and I am short on apple.
Time to sell It has gone up too much in short time just my opinion, It will go up but later not now.
crazy or guts who knows hahaha

Given impending iPad3 announcement I think the next near-term downside catalyst would be Q1 earnings.

They just had Q1 earnings.

Are you suggesting next years Q1 2013 report (Oct-Dec 2012)?


Or the CQ1 earnings (apples FQ2) coming up in April for Jan-Mar?


iPad 3 is expected to be announced first week of March and should go on sales shortly after. Giving Apple about 2-3 weeks of iPad 3 sales coming in, in the current quarter.

I read a report today that they were planning about 65-70m units to be produced in 2012...which is a huge number is true.

The fundamentals are still tremendous. Earnings are growing so fast that the PE has dropped significantly over the years with the huge rise in the stock price. It's so low now that I don't think it can drop much further. It has no debt and a HUGE cash pile. They sell as many iphones as they can manufacture and the ipad3 release is coming soon. If the rumors are true it will unquestionably be the best tablet on the market with no close competition. The iphone 5 is expected for a June release that should be the hottest phone on the market. The margins are outstanding and they are just now getting into China in a major way. All of this right now makes it a great value right now.

In the future I don't see much stopping the growth of their current product lines. More people everyday are buying Apple products and being entangled in the entire ecosystem which drives future sales of other products. Just because it's a big company doesn't mean the growth will stop unless they become overly saturated in the market. The potential for a hit on another major product, iTV, is huge while a miss would be a miniscule dent in the cash pile. They have such a great track record at innovating I doubt any major iTV release would flop, but it could. If they announce a stock split they get more potential buyers from people who don't realize that 1 500 share is the same as 10 50 shares. If they announce a dividend it would attract a whole new class of investors to the stock. Apple will be a great buy until their products are no longer the best. I don't see that changing in the immediate future (1-2 years) so I will continue to keep most of my net worth long in the stock/options.

Meant CQ1 as opposed to FQ1. Don't actually think there will be downside in their numbers but was responding more to Ludwig's post. I just don't see anything other than a broad market sell-off or issues with earnings that could significantly impact AAPL's share price in the next 6 mos. or so.

If I were someone looking to get short Apple for the short term. I'd wait until after the shareholders meeting.

It's going to be held on Feb 23 around 1pm.

If Tim Cook and the board haven't reached any sort of actionable plan on what to do with the cash and nothing is said, I think it will negatively effect the stock short term as a dividend/buyback/split/combo is being anticipated as I type.

TC just mentioned at the GS conference today that the board was in "very active" discussions on what do with the cash on hand. And to me, it sounded like they just needed to make a decision on what the best strategy is.

So if nothing is announced then I think you'll see a pullback. I wouldn't advise shorting the stock during the run up to that conference however.

I'm not a trader though, so anticipating things like these is not my expertise. Just my 2 cents.