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2021 Trading Thread 2021 Trading Thread

01-29-2021 , 01:14 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Jam and Earl
Help me understand the logistics here. Wouldn't those shares need to be provided at expiration (close), so the shares would need to be pre-purchased in the market at some point before close? Or does an option writer have ~3 days to provide shares and fill the contract?
Sorry I mistook you for someone else. Yes I believe exercised call contracts have to be filled immediately. But leveraged writers will buy up stock to prevent getting gamma squeezed prior to close as well. That's a whole shitload of shares that need to be purchased at $350+ today. I wonder if they learned their lesson and overbought in expectation. Somehow I doubt they are that smart.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/...gamma-squeeze/

Last edited by Wittgenheiny; 01-29-2021 at 01:24 PM.
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01-29-2021 , 01:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenheiny
What if i told you options market makers are delta hedged?
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01-29-2021 , 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by a_r_K
This is hilarious because yes the shorters are losing but wall street are probably making bank off of this overall. If a bunch of noobs in WSB spotted the trend i'm sure tons of pro's got in also and the pros know when to get out compared to WSB who have no exit plan.
maybe but it isn't highly likely imo

wall st can cap the whole market but I doubt they own every single trade

there's always outliers like this where randos can win

just because it is +ev doesn't mean it always wins
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01-29-2021 , 01:26 PM
I got out of AMC at $15.20, got in at $14 at around 9:40est

Not bad, I'm a total novice just wanted a sweat

my friend said RH crashed 5 mins ago
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01-29-2021 , 01:31 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by karamazonk
Since I started getting into this last March, I've never seen more interest re: jumping into the market from people who previously showed close to zero interest in the market. Went from not getting any texts or emails about it from non-traders to getting them from seven different people this week...and I don't even have a wide social circle.
Some of the stories coming out of it are inspiring if they're true. The guy that has been talking up GameStop on WSB for 6-12 months will be a multimillionaire when the dust settles. He seems like an average bloke that did his research and went for it. On a smaller scale, other posters over there have cleared medical debt, paid off student loans, and in one case paid for surgery for his dog. The fact that the media narrative involves sticking it to the man helps.

This will be mentioned in economics textbooks in 50 years.
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01-29-2021 , 01:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvr
maybe but it isn't highly likely imo

wall st can cap the whole market but I doubt they own every single trade

there's always outliers like this where randos can win

just because it is +ev doesn't mean it always wins
the spread on gme was 15 dollars at points... on hundreds of millions of shares in volume
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01-29-2021 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Csaba
Some of the stories coming out of it are inspiring if they're true. The guy that has been talking up GameStop on WSB for 6-12 months will be a multimillionaire when the dust settles. He seems like an average bloke that did his research and went for it. On a smaller scale, other posters over there have cleared medical debt, paid off student loans, and in one case paid for surgery for his dog. The fact that the media narrative involves sticking it to the man helps.

This will be mentioned in economics textbooks in 50 years.
What about the guys who lost their student loans/money to pay for dogs surgery margin longing and got stopped out?
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01-29-2021 , 01:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onionsareyummy
What if i told you options market makers are delta hedged?
I would agree with you?
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01-29-2021 , 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wittgenheiny
Sorry I mistook you for someone else. Yes I believe exercised call contracts have to be filled immediately. But leveraged writers will buy up stock to prevent getting gamma squeezed prior to close as well. That's a whole shitload of shares that need to be purchased at $350+ today. I wonder if they learned their lesson and overbought in expectation. Somehow I doubt they are that smart.

https://www.fool.com/investing/2021/...gamma-squeeze/
Good read regardless, so thanks for that. But I guess my point is, why is it assumed that "a whole shitload of shares" need to be purchased today? Are they not completely hedged for strikes below the $140 range?
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01-29-2021 , 01:43 PM
Just want to give a shout-out to candybar and Ten5 for providing a sensible counterpoint to a lot of uninformed posters here. Initially I was outraged about the collusion between RH and hedge funds to screw over retailers, but now I see that it was probably just an instance of justifiable management of counterparty risk. And I do think there's a distinction to be made between the pumping someone like Jonas does for Tesla and the blatant and express market manipulation to burn Citadel's short position. (Although there's less of a distinction between the former and Musk's "die shorty" exhortations.)

And shout-out to Billdacat for the SKT post. I actually would have waited until this GME and AMC craziness was over, since I think a lot of people have their money tied up right now and will have forgotten about SKT by Monday, but I guess you can always re-hype it.
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01-29-2021 , 01:53 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somigosaden
And I do think there's a distinction to be made between the pumping someone like Jonas does for Tesla and the blatant and express market manipulation to burn Citadel's short position. (Although there's less of a distinction between the former and Musk's "die shorty" exhortations.)
"You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.”
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01-29-2021 , 01:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by somigosaden
Just want to give a shout-out to candybar and Ten5 for providing a sensible counterpoint to a lot of uninformed posters here. Initially I was outraged about the collusion between RH and hedge funds to screw over retailers, but now I see that it was probably just an instance of justifiable management of counterparty risk.
So the only time they've ever needed to stop all trading to manage "counterparty risk" - through the pot bubble, crypto bubbles, dry shipping bubbles, even the 2018 XIV etc blowup - is just one that happens to coincide with major hedge funds backed by Citadel getting blown up?

Did you think there wouldn't be a perfectly acceptable orthodox narrative to put out there? Do you think the top level sharks at Citadel - getting blown up for billions and facing billion more in losses on Thursday, potentially facing a liquidity crisis that they caused with their greedy overleverage, can't put the squeezes on in the right place/in a deniable way to make the decision to block retail traders "reasonable"? It's so easy to put the screws on the right providers such that RH is faced with the decision they were.

It's like you don't know how business is done. They don't get on phone calls and say "Ban the retail traders because we're getting blown up!". It's more subtle but no less disgusting.
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01-29-2021 , 01:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toe Jam and Earl
Good read regardless, so thanks for that. But I guess my point is, why is it assumed that "a whole shitload of shares" need to be purchased today? Are they not completely hedged for strikes below the $140 range?
I doubt even that, honestly, but I don't know for sure.
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01-29-2021 , 02:00 PM
tanking the market to kill gme
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01-29-2021 , 02:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by karamazonk
Since I started getting into this last March, I've never seen more interest re: jumping into the market from people who previously showed close to zero interest in the market. Went from not getting any texts or emails about it from non-traders to getting them from seven different people this week...and I don't even have a wide social circle.
Between bitcoin, Tesla and now these short-heavy stocks, yeah we're in the greatest retail ponzi wave of all time. It's level to just above 2000 at this point imo.
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01-29-2021 , 02:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by onionsareyummy
the spread on gme was 15 dollars at points... on hundreds of millions of shares in volume
at least 6 million users on RB had at least a few shares each but that's besides the point

I was just arguing against the notion "if a retailer is winning a trade then there is an institution winning even more"

having a strategy that has an edge is different from winning every single trade you're in
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01-29-2021 , 02:11 PM
topships up 15%, why not
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01-29-2021 , 02:15 PM
I don’t really think the users of Reddit did anything wrong, but say they did, at what point were laws broken and by whom?:

- is it illegal for someone to post due diligence on a stock that includes publicly available information on short interest? This is obviously a variable that affects potential upside in a stock price, as stock value is ultimately a function of supply and demand.
- is it illegal for message board posters to encourage other posters to purchase a stock if they expect it to go up in value?

Where, exactly, did wallstreetbets cross the line from posting publicly available info and their opinions to illegal market manipulation? And can someone cite the specific law that makes this illegal?
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01-29-2021 , 02:16 PM
Is the GME trade even that big? Yeah some hedge funds are taking a loss but other hedge funds are making money on it. Seems like a blip in the overall scheme of things and yet everyones talking about how main street is beating wall street and creating a big narrative out of it.
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01-29-2021 , 02:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by synth_floyd
Is the GME trade even that big? Yeah some hedge funds are taking a loss but other hedge funds are making money on it. Seems like a blip in the overall scheme of things and yet everyones talking about how main street is beating wall street and creating a big narrative out of it.
This is the world we live in where everythign is blown out of proportion and everything has to be super polarized so everyone gets emotionally invested one way or the other.

The internet is basically the worst thing to ever happen to society despite the clear opportunity for the opposite.
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01-29-2021 , 02:35 PM
The buying opportunity appears to be that major companies with good earnings are now dropping and it's prob to cover losses.
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01-29-2021 , 02:45 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coordi
This is the world we live in where everythign is blown out of proportion and everything has to be super polarized so everyone gets emotionally invested one way or the other.

The internet is basically the worst thing to ever happen to society despite the clear opportunity for the opposite.
How do you watch what is happening and come to that conclusion?

It's only on the media because melvin capital wants to spin the narrative lol which would of happen either way if there was internet or not..
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01-29-2021 , 02:51 PM
Think GME gets to $200 today?
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01-29-2021 , 02:53 PM
top of all markets for >1 yr?
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01-29-2021 , 03:05 PM
Lol, you are restricted to buying 1 share of gme on robinhood now, what a joke
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