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Old Today, 12:33 AM   #326
Zenzor
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

In case the irony is lost on anyone-- defending billionaires on an online poker forum.. exhibit A of young professionals whose careers were destroyed by a Las Vegas billionaire who feared competition from online poker sites.
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Old Today, 12:49 AM   #327
coordi
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

The lobbying is a whole different issue from taxation. And as much as I hate the dinosaur, he basically had a commitment to his shareholders to do what he did... which is again, a whole other issue.
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Old Today, 04:23 AM   #328
batair
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

Think he would of made more money for them if he lobbied for online gambling and got into the business. But he, like many other businesses, fought against the free market and pushed regs! What you going to do.
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Old Today, 07:55 AM   #329
tomdemaine
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

TS,

You haven't addressed how a "conman liar idiotic cuck" can become a multi billionaire in this super fair and meritocratic society.
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Old Today, 10:59 AM   #330
TeflonDawg
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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He doesn't have any points.

He's trolling. Successfully.
No he's not. You and others are acting deliberately obtuse.

The crux has already been stated. Government just doesn't have the political will. It's corrupt.

What I don't understand is why people are so vehemently against a robust UHC system when that would, if run properly, make the economy more efficient, have better health outcomes, and allow for a cut in welfare elsewhere. Healthcare being tied to employment doesn't even make sense. It shouldn't exist. Untether it and pay workers a higher wage and let them decide how they spend it on health insurance. The idea a person must stay in a job rather than promote fluidity in the employment cycle never made sense to me, it's clearly suboptimal.

But the problem is the corruption that blocks us from getting there and "run properly" is somewhat of a big "if"...
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Old Today, 11:24 AM   #331
TeflonDawg
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Originally Posted by ToothSayer View Post
The wealthy work much harder than the poor
Define hard work.

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the data on that is very clear.
Provide data after you define hard work.
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Old Today, 01:34 PM   #332
John21
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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You work to get enough money to buy ownership of things so that society will force others to give you money.
I work to produce 10 acorns but only consume 8. So my ownership of things consists of 2 acorns. How is society forcing other squirrels to give me something they’ve already produced or promise to give me something they’ll produce in the future in exchange for my 2 acorns?
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Old Today, 02:44 PM   #333
Max Cut
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Originally Posted by TeflonDawg View Post
No he's not. You and others are acting deliberately obtuse.

The crux has already been stated. Government just doesn't have the political will. It's corrupt.

What I don't understand is why people are so vehemently against a robust UHC system when that would, if run properly, make the economy more efficient, have better health outcomes, and allow for a cut in welfare elsewhere. Healthcare being tied to employment doesn't even make sense. It shouldn't exist. Untether it and pay workers a higher wage and let them decide how they spend it on health insurance. The idea a person must stay in a job rather than promote fluidity in the employment cycle never made sense to me, it's clearly suboptimal.

But the problem is the corruption that blocks us from getting there and "run properly" is somewhat of a big "if"...
I think a large part of understanding why so many people can hold illogical opinions is understanding how powerful propaganda campaigns can be when there's a lot of money at stake. Beat the message that UHC would lead to some sort of dystopian socialist regime and demonize the supporters.
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Old Today, 03:51 PM   #334
John21
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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I think a large part of understanding why so many people can hold illogical opinions is understanding how powerful propaganda campaigns can be when there's a lot of money at stake. Beat the message that UHC would lead to some sort of dystopian socialist regime and demonize the supporters.
From Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds:
  • "Men, it has been well said, think in herds; it will be seen that they go mad in herds, while they only recover their senses slowly, and one by one."

  • "We find that whole communities suddenly fix their minds upon one object, and go mad in its pursuit; that millions of people become simultaneously impressed with one delusion, and run after it, till their attention is caught by some new folly more captivating than the first."
For some reason there seems to be an excessive amount of that going on nowadays. Maybe opposing/conflicting delusions create a synergy.
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Old Today, 04:14 PM   #335
Huehuecoyotl
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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So you're against the non-work premium of ownership? Doesn't that lie at the heart of the economic system? Even the Chinese with their hard communist ideals realized that economics don't work without ownership and wealth/capital hoarding by private individuals.

The thing is, who's doing the allocating if you take the capital off the people who won the competitive game of who can best satisfy external human wants rather than their own, with the least resources? People who performed more poorly at that game, that's who. And that's good why?

I think this is the heart of what you're not getting. It's extremely easy and in fact the base condition to deploy capital either destructively or sub-optimally. It is a small percentage of highly capable people who can deploy capital highly competently for the benefit of all. Moreover, the best thing they can do is to develop large ecosystems of wealth generation that they control. You want to disrupt this system that's worked amazingly well because...? So poor people can have a bit more stuff for a while? Which (by definition, or else they wouldn't be poor) they're going to waste on capital destroying activities?

The above seems like a stupid thing to do, frankly.
Well I wouldnt say I'm so much opposed to it, but you clearly are in some situations. Let's take why you brought up inheritances. What argument are you trying to stop? The idea that the wealthy received money without work. The so called 'just deserts' theory. You want to say the wealthy are wealthy because they work. That's why you try and bring up past work as a means of justifying a person's wealth. But the issue at hand is that people are earning income, by definition, by not working when they're earning income from capital income. That's a contradiction that can't be resolved so it's employed strategically; rich people sure that's fine, poor people no, that's terrible.

As far as allocating capital effeciently you're still conflating ownership with the work of allocation. I have a retirement account, I earn a return on that account because the money in that account was allocated effeciently and received a return. I did absolutly nothing to get that return. I couldn't tell you where it went or what it was spent on, but I got a return.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; Today at 04:39 PM.
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