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Old 03-19-2019, 03:57 AM   #251
John21
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Originally Posted by batair View Post

Yeah once i get my replicator i wont need a job anyway.
Well the more rapidly we accumulate wealth (doesn't matter whose balance sheets are improving) the sooner you'll get your replicator. Conversely, the more of our wealth (doesn't matter whose) we consume in the present, the longer it will take.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:29 AM   #252
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

Maybe lifting masses out of poverty and educating them properly allows more potential geniuses to reach that potential (and speed replicator development, for example). Someone like toothsayer would be against that since he doesn't believe races are genetically similar enough in terms of things like intelligence potential and that it would be wasted on the genetically inferior.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:46 AM   #253
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Maybe lifting masses out of poverty and educating them properly allows more potential geniuses to reach that potential (and speed replicator development, for example). Someone like toothsayer would be against that since he doesn't believe races are genetically similar enough in terms of things like intelligence potential and that it would be wasted on the genetically inferior.
In the Western world, potential geniuses are all hoovered up by the system. Most of Asia too now with their increasing wealth and capitalism, barring India maybe.

As for lifting out of poverty, I'm highly in favor of using 10% of Germany's $600b wasted on "green" energy so that none of the world's poor go to bed hungry, and we solve childhood malnutrition. The panicked moralists like BoredSocial would rather spend it on global warming mitigation that doesn't even work. We know who the real racists are here, and it isn't me.

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Old 03-19-2019, 08:49 AM   #254
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

see
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:00 AM   #255
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Maybe lifting masses out of poverty and educating them properly allows more potential geniuses to reach that potential (and speed replicator development, for example). Someone like toothsayer would be against that since he doesn't believe races are genetically similar enough in terms of things like intelligence potential and that it would be wasted on the genetically inferior.
gimmie free money and free stuff! that rich guy over there can pay for it. if he doesn't want to, that means he's racist!

max cut, if i gave you a grand a month and sent you to college you'd still be a complete idiot
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:19 AM   #256
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

I've been as far as a year of post-doc and am still an idiot, so yeah I concede that point. But, that misses the point being made, which is standard for you and others blinded by unfounded fears. Fear of browns, fear of words (e.g. socialism, being used incorrectly), fear of someone getting something "for nothing", etc.

No replicator for you.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:53 AM   #257
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Norway is sitting on a literal trillion dollar wealth fund made purely out of vast reserves of oil relative a tiny population. They have $200K per citizen in oil wealth sitting in that fund. And that's leftover money.

The US equivalent would be a $60 trillion wealth fund from pumping oil, and all debts paid. If the US had that kind of wealth then of course the US could/would do free health care and education.
GDP per capita is either higher or roughly equivalent in the US. It's just distributed differently. So the capacity is there.

We could then increase taxes 10 -15% more of GDP to bring us up to the Nordic levels of taxation and put it towards free healthcare and education or a sovereign wealth fund like Norway.

Of course Medicare for All would actually save the US some points of GDP which would open up more capacity for more things.

Last edited by Huehuecoyotl; 03-19-2019 at 12:20 PM.
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Old 03-19-2019, 12:17 PM   #258
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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GDP per capita is higher in the US.
That doesn't mean anything. "Spare money to waste on stuff" is <0 in the US. You're $20 trillion in debt for starters.
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We have more than that kind of wealth. It's just held by people who aren't the US government. So the capacity is there.
Yeah that just isn't true. Most wealth is tied up in productive capital. You can't just untie it. You can plunder it and destroy your economy but you can't just grab it. Norway doesn't have this problem. They have a vast stream of free money and a vast pile of saved money from previous free money. Economic activity wasn't needed to get Norway rich. They had a golden goose - and the gold was paid for by actual functioning producing economies like the US.

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We could then increase taxes 10 -15% of GDP and put it towards free healthcare and education or a sovereign wealth fund like Norway.
Because the government is better at allocating scarce capital toward human wants efficiently than the free market? I don't believe you.

And I'm not convinced education will have benefits. It's already a massively overpriced socially worthless parasite beyond a certain number of university places/year, which we are way beyond already.

Education is already a wasteful expensive disaster in the US. The Marxist academics railing against capitalism are in fact getting rich off exploiting the poor as education prices soar - and they use the government to keep the poor poor, since student debts can't be discharged in bankruptcy. They're the classic corporate villain.

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Of course Medicare for All would actually save the US points of GDP which would open up more capacity for more things.
Possibly. Health care is currently rationed by high prices in the US so I'm not sure how it would go if you sudden unrationed it. You don't have the self reliant socially responsible kind of population in the US that you have in Norway for example.

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Old 03-19-2019, 12:44 PM   #259
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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That doesn't mean anything. "Spare money to waste on stuff" is <0 in the US. You're $20 trillion in debt for starters.

Yeah that just isn't true. Most wealth is tied up in productive capital. You can't just untie it. You can plunder it and destroy your economy but you can't just grab it. Norway doesn't have this problem. They have a vast stream of free money and a vast pile of saved money from previous free money. Economic activity wasn't needed to get Norway rich. They had a golden goose - and the gold was paid for by actual functioning producing economies like the US.


Because the government is better at allocating scarce capital toward human wants efficiently than the free market? I don't believe you.

And I'm not convinced education will have benefits. It's already a massively overpriced socially worthless parasite beyond a certain number of university places/year, which we are way beyond already.

Education is already a wasteful expensive disaster in the US. The Marxist academics railing against capitalism are in fact getting rich off exploiting the poor as education prices soar - and they use the government to keep the poor poor, since student debts can't be discharged in bankruptcy. They're the classic corporate villain.


Possibly. Health care is currently rationed by high prices in the US so I'm not sure how it would go if you sudden unrationed it. You don't have the self reliant socially responsible kind of population in the US that you have in Norway for example.
Notice how the argument shifts though. First it was that the US isn't rich enough, which implies capacity. I would agree that if a country doesn't have the capacity to spend on universal healthcare they shouldn't do it, but the US does. And you agreed with me.

But you try and shift to something about wealth being tied up into productive capital, but that's not meaningfully different than Norway's sovereign wealth fund. The SWF isn't a vault of money like Scrooge McDuck, it's an investment fund, one of the biggest in the world. And investment funds have their money tied up in.... productive capital.

You can see here for yourself how they invest; in real estate, equities, and fixed incomes

https://www.nbim.no/en/the-fund/how-we-invest/

So now we can see that Norway's SFW isn't any different than 'money being tied up in productive capital' in the US, what's the implied constraint here? It's not capacity, it's not money tied up in capital, it's the levels of taxation. The US can't fund universal health care, tuition free universities, etc at the current levels of taxation. Norway can at its levels of taxation.

So if we want to do those things, we simply need to raise our levels of taxation.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:20 PM   #260
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Education is already a wasteful expensive disaster in the US. The Marxist academics railing against capitalism are in fact getting rich off exploiting the poor as education prices soar -
Lol.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:26 PM   #261
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

Did I say something funny?

Colleges are profiteering off the taxpayer and the poor and naive who they saddle with lifelong debt:
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Since 1982 a typical family income increased by 147%, more than inflation but significantly behind the huge increase in college costs. College costs have been rising roughly at a rate of 7% per year for decades. Since 1985, the overall consumer price index has risen 115% while the college education inflation rate has risen nearly 500%. According to Gordon Wadsworth, author of The College Trap, “…if the cost of college tuition was $10,000 in 1986, it would now cost the same student over $21,500 if education had increased as much as the average inflation rate but instead education is $59,800 or over 2 ˝ times the inflation rate.” Blunting these increases is a rise in federal student aid including tax credits and deductions. And nearly two thirds of undergraduates now receive some sort of grant aid and student loan borrowing is on the upswing. But loans must be paid back so the pain of payment is only delayed.

State colleges and universities even have controlled prices to students somewhat by throwing more tax dollars at institutions and through private fund raising. But recently that trend has reversed, as states have had to deal with their own fiscal crises. The problem is that the underlying costs keep rising and there is seemingly little effort being expended to control those costs. Imagine what college costs would be if they weren’t underwritten partially by other tax dollars!
The left wing professors and college bureaucrats are raping the poor. Throwing public money at college education has been a disaster, sending costs out of control as these toxic capitalists soak up taxpayer money and saddle naive poor young people with lifelong debts - for very little to negative benefit to the individual after debt and a net negative to society past certain enrollment levels and in many courses.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:31 PM   #262
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

For being a world traveling playboy you have a lot of time on you hands.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:37 PM   #263
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

My business law professor worked at the EPA and would occasionally try to prove to us that the EPA did nothing and should be abolished.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:41 PM   #264
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

The Marxist academics railing against capitalism are in fact getting rich off exploiting the poor as education prices soar

ye man, teachers are all rubbing it on their titties. ez game



Did I say something funny?

People laugh at clowns.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:42 PM   #265
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

Take it he was not from the northeast where midwest acid rain rained down and killed lakes.

NSFW language.



Also not a safe space for Nazis they are satirical.

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Old 03-19-2019, 03:39 PM   #266
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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My business law professor worked at the EPA and would occasionally try to prove to us that the EPA did nothing and should be abolished.
Liberals just don't appreciate any of the good things Nixon did.
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Old 03-19-2019, 03:43 PM   #267
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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GDP per capita is either higher or roughly equivalent in the US. It's just distributed differently. So the capacity is there.

We could then increase taxes 10 -15% more of GDP to bring us up to the Nordic levels of taxation and put it towards free healthcare and education or a sovereign wealth fund like Norway.
Sure, why not. Nothing could possibly go wrong with taxing all hh income over $75K @ 75% which we'd need to do to increase income tax receipts 200%.

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Old 03-19-2019, 04:37 PM   #268
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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Sure, why not. Nothing could possibly go wrong with taxing all hh income over $75K @ 75% which we'd need to do to increase income tax receipts 200%.



We're comparing the US to an actually existing country that does tax 10 to 15% more of GDP. This isn't some hypothetical.
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Old 03-19-2019, 05:19 PM   #269
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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We're comparing the US to an actually existing country that does tax 10 to 15% more of GDP. This isn't some hypothetical.
That they can be compared is hypothetical. Maybe they can or maybe they can’t, idk, but at the end of the day it really doesn’t matter. So instead of relying on whatboutism to make your case, pretend those countries don’t even exist and justify how we’ll be better off essentially consuming the $2-3 trillion that is currently saved and invested every year.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:16 PM   #270
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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I've been as far as a year of post-doc and am still an idiot, so yeah I concede that point. But, that misses the point being made, which is standard for you and others blinded by unfounded fears. Fear of browns, fear of words (e.g. socialism, being used incorrectly), fear of someone getting something "for nothing", etc.

No replicator for you.
The democrats are publishing agendas with "equity" policies which are marxist and socialist ideology and language. This is also becoming mainstream in universities among the left. People came along defending "socialism" and started talking about Nordic countries which aren't socialist, they're capitalist.

This should clarify a lot

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeffrey.../#3672333d74ad

Anyways, what is completely predictable on your part is nothing of substance and a bunch more attempts to call people racist and drag the conversation in that direction. It's like an obsession. It's totally off topic and baseless. It's also laughably stereotypical of an unhinged loon. Unable to articulate anything of substance and spam outrage. Repeatedly chant nonsense. It took you only a few posts to achieve godwins law and start throwing completely off topic nazi accusations around. stop embarrassing yourself at our expense. it got boring in the bitcoin thread
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:31 PM   #271
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

And still more definition fetishizing about "socialism". It's so weird, but maybe because I just don't fully understand the phenomena. Maybe book definitions are like the only bits of firm ground to hold onto in the soupy landscape of directed rhetoric constantly spewing from fox/breitbart/infowars/etc propaganda profiteers. Anyway, thanks for sharing your opinion that the Nordic countries aren't socialist. That was kinda the ****ing point.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:57 PM   #272
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

His post is the meme, which is funny. Also I didn’t defend anything work on your reading comp.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:03 PM   #273
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

Yeah, like that would be a quality post if meant as humor. A funny rwnj could post that and we could have a laugh together rather than him just being laughed at. But humor beyond "ow my balls" and "lol librul tears" isn't in his range.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:31 PM   #274
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

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As for why "correcting" for income is inappropriate, impulse control and conscientiousness are a very strong underlying factor in both income and marshmallows. Both are also highly heritable. So correcting for income is just like my global warming "correction".

I also think you missed the point about the midgets.
Research Team A: Our study found that shoe size strongly correlates with basketball ability. Foot size must be important to being good at basketball.

Research Team B: We controlled for height and found that when doing so the correlation between foot size and basketball skill went away.

Toothsayer: You can't do that! Foot size and height share the same underlying factor! Quit torturing the data! CO2 and midgets!
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:16 PM   #275
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Re: 2020 Dems - Sell USA?

Its possible the US could pull off a Norway style benefits system by increasing taxes 10-15%, idealistically, yes. I think there is a lot more to it than just jacking up the taxes though...

They have a highly educated nationalistic population. Something like over 85% of the population is Norwegian decent. Most of the immigrants are from neighboring countries and achieve citizenship. They have a manageable population with something like 35% of the population working in the public sector. They have pride in their efficient government and a sense of community among their non-diverse population. Its basically everything America isn't.

Pretty sure you could do a spot analysis for every situation like this.
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