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2018 Trading Thread 2018 Trading Thread

11-17-2018 , 01:28 PM
i mean, the natgas move was real. there was a rumor that some huge fund had a long oil / short natgas play which promptly got murdered this last week. but i think this is just some different guy with a boner for selling way OOTM naked options who finally got his black swan event.

natgas is either the most boring commodity market or the most amazingly crazy commodity market, really no in between.
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11-17-2018 , 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by juan valdez
I think even chartists are seeing a possible topping pattern here. Personally I think both the highs and lows are in for the year. I think the market finishes 2019 lower but there's a good chance it's up from here by the end of Jan

I just don't think bull markets last forever and rates & debt matter. It's going to be really hard to keep up sky high expectations and performance for much longer with very real headwinds scheduled
I'm not saying there aren't signs. What I am saying is, if you're looking for signs all the time, you will always see them, and eventually you'll be right. (after literally being wrong %100 of the time up until that point)
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11-17-2018 , 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by RT
Anyone in Crude Oil and/or Natural Gas (or just likely running a Ponzi):

James Cordier and Jeff Boski separated at birth.
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11-19-2018 , 10:53 AM
Deleted even that video now? Wow. Cuck got liquidated.
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11-20-2018 , 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by twelve yr old
I got very short today in EIX. The Malibu fire was most likely them and although it won't bankrupt them, I can't imagine anyone wants to be holding onto California utility companies after seeing what's happening to PCG. Risk just went sky high for these companies
I'm looking at news article and seen some people already trying to sue them. But haven't seen much volatility yet. Or at least as expected compared to PCG.
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11-20-2018 , 09:16 PM
I want to learn to trade but can't follow super closely throughout the day as I have to work (on a computer).

Good idea? How do I get started? I've had a little success swing trading MJ stocks but I don't have any real strategy.
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11-20-2018 , 10:25 PM
someone on twitter reported having an optionsellers.com account valued at 400k, which was brought to -100K after the margin call
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11-23-2018 , 11:30 PM
crazy month to have the entire year wiped off of all the indexes that quickly. hopefully it turns arouind
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11-24-2018 , 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by JKC
I want to learn to trade but can't follow super closely throughout the day as I have to work (on a computer).

Good idea? How do I get started? I've had a little success swing trading MJ stocks but I don't have any real strategy.
I want to learn to be a poker superstar but can't really go to tournaments and stuff.

Good idea? How do I get started? I've had a little success at home games but I don't have any real strategy.
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11-24-2018 , 09:50 PM
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Originally Posted by DoctorZangief
I want to learn to be a poker superstar but can't really go to tournaments and stuff.

Good idea? How do I get started? I've had a little success at home games but I don't have any real strategy.
You could have just said there aren't any strategies that fit my limitations. Jerk.
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11-25-2018 , 09:57 PM
I've been interested in trading for a while, but one thing that has held me back at least for a little while has been my lack of surety about artificial intelligence. How long do we have until traders get phased out, like what is about to happen to cab and truck drivers? Anyone here have any expertise regarding this?

Another question I have is, what should I study to get started trading cryptos? I assume cryptos are easiest if you have a small account? Is it more dangerous to day trade cryptos than forex or something?
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11-26-2018 , 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kini
I've been interested in trading for a while, but one thing that has held me back at least for a little while has been my lack of surety about artificial intelligence. How long do we have until traders get phased out, like what is about to happen to cab and truck drivers? Anyone here have any expertise regarding this?
This has mostly already happened. Everything that was easy money that you could do by hand, has now had the margins reduced by automation
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11-26-2018 , 01:32 PM
Apple's shine is gone. A decent short here at $170.70. Once the waxy shine comes off it shrivels up.
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11-26-2018 , 01:40 PM
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Apple's shine is gone. A decent short here at $170.70. Once the waxy shine comes off it shrivels up.
With the profits they make isn't the lack of growth potential largely priced in already?
I mean I am not optimistic about Apple in general but they will continue to make bank in foreseeable future. I mean they are on track to make the value of the company in profits in coming decade (if you subtract cash on hand). Any reasons it should go even lower in coming months?
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11-26-2018 , 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Apple's shine is gone. A decent short here at $170.70. Once the waxy shine comes off it shrivels up.
Lol first off you've missed most of the move so risk reward with the buyback still under the stock is dramatically reduced at this point. Second, if you are so sure then I know a certain contest you could apply this to...
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11-26-2018 , 01:44 PM
Not really. I got very bearish after Cook's decision not to release numbers, posted as much.
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Originally Posted by punter11235
With the profits they make isn't the lack of growth potential largely priced in already?
I mean I am not optimistic about Apple in general but they will continue to make bank in foreseeable future. I mean they are on track to make the value of the company in profits in coming decade (if you subtract cash on hand). Any reasons it should go even lower in coming months?
Tim Cook's ridiculous decision to not release numbers was the catalyst. Then production cuts as they price far too high for what they provide. Upcoming economic slowdown for what is ultimately a luxury. Now an antitrust suit on the app store just got approved by the Supreme Court today. Antitrust is an ugly weight on Apple since they're the poster boy for it.

It sucks to short intraday off lows due to the large buyback and cucks like Buffett, but I think sentiment has turned.
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11-26-2018 , 01:49 PM
I actually completely disagree, I wouldn't mind selling puts in AAPL at this point and it's something I will look to do in the weeks to come. Think pressing a short down here is a pretty poor idea and this is from someone who made the case you made above weeks ago lol.
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11-26-2018 , 01:51 PM
MSFT mkt cap is 4 Billion less than AAPL at this time.
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11-26-2018 , 01:57 PM
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Tim Cook's ridiculous decision to not release numbers was the catalyst.
Yeah that's a red flag but it looks like the stock took a hit already.

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Then production cuts as they price far too high for what they provide.
Vanity and humanity go together. I know people going in debt and scamming friends to be able to afford a new iPhone or a Macbook. I don't think Apple is going to be hit by recession more heavily than others.

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Now an antitrust suit on the app store just approved by the Supreme Court.
Even if they lose they will implement a work around like complicated installation of other app stores with warnings that going to frighten 95%+ of their customer base. The devs will have little choice but comply. It will take years to get things together and come up with viable alternative to the app store.

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but I think sentiment has turned.
I don't like Apple, I wish they go out of business and the idea of walled gardens with them. Seeing how people drool over their products reduced my faith in humanity over the years very significantly. Still, I don't think humanity is going to change and I don't think anyone is beating them on luxury phone/laptop market. It would require turn of events like Google hiring someone competent to lead Pixel division which watching how Google ruins their best products over the years is very very unlikely. Similarly Samsung getting good at software is not going to happen either even if their hardware is already better than Apple's. Even if that happens people are technology inept and fashion driven, the cost of switching to a phone of another manufacturer (and OS with that) is an intellectual effort that can be compared to running a marathon for vast majority of current population. It's just not going to happen unless someone comes up with truly revolutionary way of putting pictures on Instagram but then Apple has 250B in the bank to buy those guys out.

I am bullish on Facebook btw. They own social media because of the best acquisition ever (Instagram) and they own WhatsApp which is the only game in town in many countries and dominant chatting up world wide. There is a lot of negative PR which caused the price to collapse and Facebook proper may be going out of fashion. It's still hard to imagine anyone competing with them in coming years. They have many smart people on board and it seems they don't have Google level idiocy in the management. At the end of the day if anything happens from regulatory point of view it's only going to constitute a huge moat for potential competition. I won't be buying their stock (resigned myself to ETFs and occasional rare gamble) but if I were to pick among tech giants I would go with Facebook and Amazon.

Last edited by punter11235; 11-26-2018 at 02:06 PM.
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11-27-2018 , 03:18 AM
Not sure what's up with VSLR more new 52 week highs. Added VCEL to watchlist. new 52 week on VCEL. Consistent revenue growth and forward EPS keeps getting bumped up.
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11-27-2018 , 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by punter11235
I don't think Apple is going to be hit by recession more heavily than others.
That's just nonsense.

AAPL is a high end luxury retailer whose target market is literally everyone. The majority of their customers can't afford what they're buying. They're pretty much the #1 candidate for getting hammered by a recession.

That's not to say people will necessarily switch away from AAPL, but the upgrade cycle will certainly become less frequent. And I can see them losing a lot of the teen/young adult market as their phones get more and more expensive, which is obviously terrible for future prospects.

Last edited by stinkypete; 11-27-2018 at 09:51 AM.
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11-27-2018 , 10:09 AM
I disagree stinky, a $2000 luxury good going into a recession for which there are in-ecosystem and out of ecosystem far cheaper alternatives including secondhand should do just great during an economic downturn.
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11-27-2018 , 11:45 AM
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That's just nonsense.

AAPL is a high end luxury retailer whose target market is literally everyone. The majority of their customers can't afford what they're buying. They're pretty much the #1 candidate for getting hammered by a recession.
This makes sense. I just see so many people around prioritizing shiny gadgets over necessities that I feel a lot of other things are going to suffer first before Apple does (proportionally to the size of the downturn). Admittedly it's just my feelings and I don't feel confident at all. I just wouldn't be comfortable betting vs Apple at this price.

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I disagree stinky, a $2000 luxury good going into a recession for which there are in-ecosystem and out of ecosystem far cheaper alternatives including secondhand should do just great during an economic downturn.
:-)
Yeah, I hope you are right. My intuition tells me that people will look for savings in many other areas before they give up their shiny status symbols though.
2018 Trading Thread Quote
11-27-2018 , 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by punter11235
This makes sense. I just see so many people around prioritizing shiny gadgets over necessities that I feel a lot of other things are going to suffer first before Apple does (proportionally to the size of the downturn). Admittedly it's just my feelings and I don't feel confident at all. I just wouldn't be comfortable betting vs Apple at this price.

:-)
Yeah, I hope you are right. My intuition tells me that people will look for savings in many other areas before they give up their shiny status symbols though.
You're talking about the (unfortunately large) subset of the population who will literally max out credit cards to get the latest iphone and then struggle to make minimum payments and complain about how they're perpetually broke. When that credit availability starts to contract, they will not be buying iphones.

Other luxury goods retailers won't suffer as much because the majority of their customers are rich and will continue to be rich.
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11-27-2018 , 05:45 PM
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You're talking about the (unfortunately large) subset of the population who will literally max out credit cards to get the latest iphone and then struggle to make minimum payments and complain about how they're perpetually broke. When that credit availability starts to contract, they will not be buying iphones.
Ok, so for example I think car companies will get hit more by recession than Apple. Agreed? Banking might be hit even harder once people start defaulting and won't be able to get more loans. People will continue to eat at McDonalds, sure but it's not clear most industries do better than Apple. People will be upgrading iPhones/Macbooks less often but that also goes for cars, phones of other companies, loans, travel agents, real estate. I am not saying Apple won't be hit by recession only that it will not necessary be hit more than average industry.

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Other luxury goods retailers won't suffer as much because the majority of their customers are rich and will continue to be rich.
I definitely agree with it.
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