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2018 Trading Thread 2018 Trading Thread

02-18-2018 , 10:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
That's not what selection bias in the context of sharing results.

It's absolutely fair, but posting an entry has far more credibility. "Think about getting long soon" and then the market craps itself on high volume the next day - did you sell/get stopped out and lose substantial money, or did you hold through horrific "technical" that show a strong downside continuation?

Without real time entries and exits, you don't get to brag. There were even a bunch of hilarious posts that claimed to have bought the bottom many many hours after it had ripped higher off low. That's just noise and pure selection bias. No one who thought long was a good idea was posting if the downside continued.

That's a very believable claim.

And the best way to be correct about that is to post actual real time trades and own the consequences. And for others to do so too. How do you judge a trade or learn about the ups and downs without entries and exits? "Should start buying soon" is far too vague to brag. It's the details that matter.

Post what you want but realize that most of this stuff is selection biased. Far OOTM SVXY puts were a horrible trade unless you understood the product well enough to know it would blow up. Similarly, long XIV (short vol) was a great trade for 150+% profit in a year. But if you didn't exit at the right time and didn't realize it could go to zero overnight - I'm only aware of Brian here who got out late but in time to not lose everything and walk away with a nice profit - then your trade was ****tarded and you were just a lucky loser until it all came crashing down, at which point you were a standard luck loser.

I argued with Brian that XIV's performance in 2017 and the abnormally low volatility was very unnatural - it was uniquely Trump related - and that he should sell out at $135. He didn't think the bull run was unusual. I think he got out around $115 all told for a big profit, as that's when his model told him to. That's a good trade and a solid model, but you can't assess that without real time entries and exits. There is no way to tell whether he was a good trader or just a loser without him posting the entry and exit. People are wrong about the sentiment, right about the trade all the time (or vice versa), and if you care about money, it's only the trades that matter. Brian was right about the trade even if he somewhat misread the nature of the bull market. That's all that matters.

If we're going to be serious about making money and if we want credibility then we need to post entries and exits in real time. I do, even with a couple of worthless money-losing trolls with personal problems trying to give me a hard time by selectively quoting on the ones it moves against. Why can't you?

That's not to say general sentiments or ideas are out of line. They're very valuable. You don't get to brag without being laughed at when a vague sentiment goes your way. I post plenty of those and only post actual trade recommendations on stuff I think is +EV and worth others taking. If you're never doing the latter then you have no cred and you're not really seriously using this community to make money.
We agree on a lot of what you posted, you got the point I was making on the SVXY comment as well. It was a terrible trade until it wasn't. The only way I could admire (or even know period) those guys if the results turned their way. Should we call them lucky or geniuses?

I'm making a ton of trades on a daily basis IRL so there is no possible way I could be accurate or consistent in what I'm talking about here (which also is part of my own issue with a lack of consistency in what we talk about). I agree with you guys after the fact bragging doesn't do anything to advance the discussion but I'm pretty sure every regular has done the same thing at one point or another.

Who cares about bragging rights honestly? Especially on a forum like 2+2 lol.
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02-18-2018 , 10:32 AM
Btw I have posted plenty of real time ideas, some are terrible but just check the trading thread last year. I've refrained this year because I'm just not sure what the benefit is anymore. Wasn't really getting constructive feedback on most of what I had been posting anyways. Tried to encourage others to do the same but again, no consistency.
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02-19-2018 , 01:55 AM
Mulesoft MULE quarter had an impressive 60% sales growth. Its an IT, cloud company and I imagine it could end up on the acquisition block of big-cap tech. They aren't profitable yet.
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02-19-2018 , 02:33 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by :::grimReaper:::
This is exactly why you don't trade stocks/ETFs, rather you trade futures. I'm not sure if he's managing fund and whether this would've applied to him anyway, but if he had traded stocks/ETFs as an individual trader, he would've paid taxes on $12M over 5 years, and now have a capital loss of $9MM. And it's safe to assume that he paid more than $3M in taxes, so he would effectively be at a loss. With futures, you can offset your losses going back 3 years.
His claim of taking $500k to $12m was on his own money. Shorting VXX and UVXY doesn't generate a taxable event until you exit the position.* Since he seems to just periodically just add to the short positions, he likely has been sitting on purely untaxed gains.

Well, unless he had a margin call during the volpocalypse that triggered a taxable event. If that was the case, then got ****ed pretty hard. He claims that he didn't even come close to a margin call, but I kind of don't see how that could be true if he was adding to his short (as he tweeted he was) during the mayhem over the last month.

He also does some short-term trading from what I understand, but I'm entirely in the dark on how much of his profits over the years were from that.

*I just use long XIV and SVXY. Err, well I won't be using XIV anymore. SVXY is a pain in the butt for taxes since you get a k-1, but is essentially taxed exactly like you were trading the futures directly.
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02-19-2018 , 02:44 AM
Anyone in here using TradingView a lot?
I modified an indicator I liked using PineScript(TV's scripting language) and am trying to figure out how to do the following with it:

Iterate through all listed tickers on Nasdaq(and probably Russel2000) and run them through my indicator and compile list of tickers meeting "x" requirement of my indicator. This could simply be on a daily time frame(compile the list once a day after the close) but would eventually want it down to probably 4h or 1h timeframe.

Basically just trying to automate me manually typing in tickers into the chart and looking for "x" condition. Ideally being able to make calls/requests through their API but I cannot find any such documentation on how to simulate typing tickers into their charts and querying the data that it spits out in real time.
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02-19-2018 , 07:46 PM
Just wanted to say ESH18 is back at 2730, which is where it fell apart two weeks ago. In other words, this is a key level.

A two-hour chart is a good view for looking at this.
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02-19-2018 , 09:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duffman08
Anyone in here using TradingView a lot?
I modified an indicator I liked using PineScript(TV's scripting language) and am trying to figure out how to do the following with it:

Iterate through all listed tickers on Nasdaq(and probably Russel2000) and run them through my indicator and compile list of tickers meeting "x" requirement of my indicator. This could simply be on a daily time frame(compile the list once a day after the close) but would eventually want it down to probably 4h or 1h timeframe.

Basically just trying to automate me manually typing in tickers into the chart and looking for "x" condition. Ideally being able to make calls/requests through their API but I cannot find any such documentation on how to simulate typing tickers into their charts and querying the data that it spits out in real time.

lurker but will help .....iuse the TV "scanner" and define criteria, you can everything your asking and much more fwiw
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02-19-2018 , 11:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rand
Just wanted to say ESH18 is back at 2730, which is where it fell apart two weeks ago. In other words, this is a key level.

A two-hour chart is a good view for looking at this.
Indeed. I've shorted the eminis here. My playbook shows a sea of red candles ahead well into the morning, looking like we have to test the 2686-2700 range again sooner rather than later
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02-20-2018 , 09:14 AM
Those of you like baseball that have been in the game for a long time, how much do you ascribe a stock correction to this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-real-deal

Reading it makes sense, but my historical knowledge of the markets lacks reference points to point back to for this.
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02-20-2018 , 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
Those of you like baseball that have been in the game for a long time, how much do you ascribe a stock correction to this:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-for-real-deal

Reading it makes sense, but my historical knowledge of the markets lacks reference points to point back to for this.
Who knows? Thing is money has been real easy for a decade and as that unwinds it could get ugly. But seems as if in these days of algorithmic trading whatever happens fast and changes back fast. 5 month corrections? Now they take 2 weeks. I don't think we really tank until the next recession.

Another problem is bonds have been rallying for 30+ years. Nobody really knows what happens in a bond bear because nobody has ever seen one. The unwind by the Fed and other central banks will probably cause all sorts of fits and starts that could be dangerous but at least the trade should be good
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02-20-2018 , 11:43 AM
Didn't we just experience a bond bear? Or was I just mislead by headlines?
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02-20-2018 , 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Twitter decent medium term short at $33 (I liked it long at $19 a few months ago) with Jack throwing cold water on an acquisition and talking about Twitter's structural advertising issues at a conference. Profit taking fairly likely.

Chipolte decent medium term long at $281 with the Taco Bell CEO brought in to help turn it around. Personally I think the company is trash, but it's been priced a lot higher even recently and the new big-deal CEO should be a nice upside catalyst.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rand
What was the expected move? I am not buying it here. Its back into resistance on the daily.

Like the TWTR short though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
To $320 or so in the coming weeks unless the market dives. Medium term.

Believing in resistance is a costly delusion that destroys alpha.
Target reach on this one ($320), good enough for me, I'm out if anyone followed.

rand, do you see how your notions of resistance caused you to miss an excellent fundamental opportunity from a strong catalyst? The "resistance" you saw was total delusion that destroyed alpha for you. Even if support and resistance were valid ideas (they're not and you should ignore anyone who uses them seriously, because they can't think for ****), the notions become worthless when large fundamental changes happens, and putting weight into them is insane.
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02-20-2018 , 01:19 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rafiki
Didn't we just experience a bond bear? Or was I just mislead by headlines?
They did peak last summer but if you look at a forever chart they have pretty much been going up since the early 80's. The top is probably in for a while and people have been calling bonds a bubble for at least a decade. I think a lot depends on the velocity of any downward movement we see.
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02-20-2018 , 02:14 PM
i think its going to take something of an earnings miracle to keep this going. debt, rates, dollar, p/e, qe, and inflation. something is going to give, it will take a small miracle to keep the plates spinning imo
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02-20-2018 , 05:35 PM
QQQ's held their ground today. Nas almost finished positive despite other inices red and VIX up. Had a stop order out today on QID to short Naz, saw the red figured I'm filled and up big lol. I think last few days rally was a bear flag, market keeps going south imo. Noodles and Company NDLS hit new 52 week high today. only got a $280 mil market cap.
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02-21-2018 , 12:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by juan valdez
i think its going to take something of an earnings miracle to keep this going. debt, rates, dollar, p/e, qe, and inflation. something is going to give, it will take a small miracle to keep the plates spinning imo
Some variant of "six macroeconomic reasons why we need a miracle" has been true every single day that I've been alive.
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02-21-2018 , 08:44 AM
Anyone following the Marc cohodes/Parker petit feud and mdxg drama?


Cohodes Def enjoying this moment
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02-21-2018 , 08:51 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Anyone following the Marc cohodes/Parker petit feud and mdxg drama?


Cohodes Def enjoying this moment
I have been. Cohodes lost his mind on OSTK but I thought his case on MDXG was pretty convincing. The video where he confronted Parker at that conference a couple months ago was pretty entertaining.
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02-21-2018 , 08:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jupiter0
Noodles and Company NDLS hit new 52 week high today. only got a $280 mil market cap.
grimreaper doesn't believe in rising wages and inflation but all the publicly traded restaurants are going to get absolutely smoked this year. Higher wages, rising food prices combined with price sensitivity is going to compress the hell out of margins. NDLS, RRGB, SHAK (planning an expansion!), BBRG...and some other names all in trouble. Not sure what the best way to trade this is.
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02-21-2018 , 09:00 AM
Thanks for this, it's a fun feud.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-fbi-showed-up
Quote:
The FBI arrived at Alder Lane Farm, where Cohodes runs his investing operations with a side of chicken farming, just after lunch
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02-21-2018 , 10:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by syndr0me
Anyone following the Marc cohodes/Parker petit feud and mdxg drama?


Cohodes Def enjoying this moment
Also this is a great example of a variation of the Streisand effect. If Parker didn't sic the FBI on Marc no one would have really cared outside the FinTwit universe. Marc has been making noise about MDXG for a long time. But as soon as the FBI threatened Marc at his house at a corporation's behest and the media caught wind of it, MDXG was ****ed.


The lesson is to let trolls troll and ignore them. If people did that, Russian Twitter bots, fake news, SJWs and all that crap in the culture war wouldn't be an issue. It's only that when you engage with trolls that you lose.
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02-21-2018 , 11:12 AM
Taking on trolls is the PR equivalent of leverage, which is great if want to be long publicity and not short.

And I disagree somewhat. I think they got unlucky and picked on a crazy stubborn chicken farmer. Intimidation is generally a reliable tactic imo. You don't hear about the 95% of case where it worked and the person shut up.
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02-21-2018 , 11:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Target reach on this one ($320), good enough for me, I'm out if anyone followed.

part1: rand, do you see how your notions of resistance caused you to miss an excellent fundamental opportunity from a strong catalyst? The "resistance" you saw was total delusion that destroyed alpha for you.
This is not true. That was just the reason that I choose to articulate as to why I did not take the trade. I thought it was an earnings move, had no idea what the (supposed) expected move was, had all the long exposure that I wanted going into the end of the week, etc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
part2: Even if support and resistance were valid ideas (they're not and you should ignore anyone who uses them seriously, because they can't think for ****),
They clearly are, can't believe you are having this conversation seriously. So too is overbought, oversold, trendlines, etc. Markets, like many complex systems in the living world are on the edge of order and chaos. Things like trend lines are examples of ordered behavior in the markets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
part2:the notions become worthless when large fundamental changes happens, and putting weight into them is insane.
This is true but would be true of anything, including previous fundamental shifts. Nothing lasts forever.
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02-21-2018 , 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rand
This is not true. That was just the reason that I choose to articulate as to why I did not take the trade. I thought it was an earnings move, had no idea what the (supposed) expected move was, had all the long exposure that I wanted going into the end of the week, etc.
lol, ok.

Quote:
They clearly are, can't believe you are having this conversation seriously. So too is overbought, oversold, trendlines, etc. Markets, like many complex systems in the living world are on the edge of order and chaos. Things like trend lines are examples of ordered behavior in the markets.
I agree...just in this one graph below you can see the order arising out of chaos and generating trading signals:



It's a random walk.

Support and resistance have been studied. They don't exist in US equity markets. You're completely deluded. Which is understandable....look at the graph above - there are very clear patterns repeating again and again for support, resistance, trend lines..had you traded on these patterns, you'd have made good money. How can you not believe these are real?

It's a random walk.

You can see the huge amount of strong false positives generated by random data - they're about as frequent as what happens in real market data - how do you know that the signals you're basing trades on aren't pure bull**** most of the time? Even if support and resistance are real, most support and resistance points would have to be bull****, given how frequently they arise out of random noise. Why are they a good guide, given this very high rate of false positives?

Last edited by ToothSayer; 02-21-2018 at 12:04 PM.
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02-21-2018 , 12:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToothSayer
Target reach on this one ($320), good enough for me, I'm out if anyone followed.
I followed, but not sure this one is done running. Stop placed at $318, will see how it plays out heading into the weekend.
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