Quote:
Originally Posted by AceSweaty
As requested some gems for the quote button below (important bits in red).
Anyone else still waiting for money from this prick, please drop me a PM. As Thomas has made it clear he has the means to make refunds I'm looking to discuss the next step we can take (not pestering his family).
Re: e-mails below I know I shouldn't be reasoning with the guy. I didn't realise just how far in denial he was until his last e-mail.
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From: Steve
To: breathweapon2020@yahoo.com
Sent: Sat, June 12, 2010 3:00:28 PM
Subject: Refund - AceSweaty
Please could you check your Skype chat log with me: XXX
It was $150 I transferred to you on PokerStars (06/04/10 - 'AceSweaty') for 2 hours. I'd like a refund please.
Hope to resolve this ASAP.
Steve
From: Memory Lane
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 1:54 PM
To: Steve
Subject: Re: Refund - AceSweaty
Hi Steve,
I'm refunding the guys I promised refunds to already, I can't access my Skype, but I do remember our conversation and I will honor my word on that as long as you're willing to accept it's not an admission of guilt on my part - I'm doing this strictly because I no longer feel 2p2 or the moderators are unbiased enough to arbitrate the matter fairly, and people have violated my privacy and confidentiality with threats I take seriously. I've already refunded Dr. Jones/Boreck/Robin, ???/Tinygoldfish/Mauro and 1 non-2p2 member for undelivered classes with transfers or outstanding transfers, and I'm just waiting on security to relay transfer requests thru' frozen accounts. I'm also not refunding every one who's asking for a refund, so please don't post this email and treat it confidentially or I reserve the right to renig.
Thank you,
-Thomas
From: Steve
To: Memory Lane <breathweapon2020@yahoo.com>
Sent: Sat, June 12, 2010 6:30:36 PM
Subject: Re: Refund - AceSweaty
Thomas
Appreciate the response.
Regarding the admission of guilt, we played on ipoker dude and I'd be lying if I said I didn't have suspicions. Particularly because I've had other high profile coaches. I kept an open mind but when ya look at that thread.... It's come to the point where I don't think anyone needs an admission of guilt to realise your coaching ad wasn't accurate. You screwed up royally. It happens, everyone makes mistakes. You need to stop deflecting and just come forward and tell the truth. You owe it to every student who has bought your time and who's also staying patient through all of this.
You really would quash 'the mob mentality' if you actually come out and:
- display a level of responsibility
- show that you're actively working towards a resolution
You'll be surprised how much respect you'll get with an articulate and apologetic response. I'd imagine that part of that response would in all likelihood include things that are pretty tough to come out with:
- You didn't win at 4ptbb over 500k hands
- You stole and doctored another player's graph
- Coaching was a substantial part of your income. You can't afford to refund everyone (perhaps make a proposal for case by case criteria, a % return and/or a refund request cut-off date),
Also:
- If you had satisfied customers that sent you before and after graphs, include them.
- If there are circumstances around all this, make everyone aware.
If people have been pestering you and your family is it not more through exasperation linked to your disappearance than hatred?
Anyway, I'd like my money back and it's not in my interest to start pursuing it any other way but civilly with you. I've made a sustained effort to keep polite and civil and I'd really like to keep contact open.
Gotta make it clear though I don't wanna be talking to you with an oath of silence because:
1) I have a mate who is also desperate for a refund but hasn't been able to get in contact with you. I'd like to let him know you're still open to discussion.
2) When you read self-loathing posts from guys who've lost $800 it's just wrong for this to be sorted any other way than out in the open. It's just not in your interest either.
If you can send the money, I'm AceSweaty on FT and Stars.
Cheers
Steve
From: Memory Lane
Sent: Saturday, June 12, 2010 4:44 PM
To: Steve
Subject: Re: Refund - AceSweaty
Hi Steve,
If you're not comfortable speaking with "an oath of silence," that's ok, it just limits what I can and can't say and what information I can and can't provide. I appreciate your civility in the matter, and I'm open to your friend's request as well. I'd be all for doing this on 2p2, if people on 2p2 weren't lying to other people, doctoring evidence, posing as my students (and now my parents, seriously), trying to catch me in a lie or get me to confess to something I didn't do. The threats on me and my girlfriend started before I left 2p2 temporarily to deal with them, they just escalated to include my family while I was busy dealing with it IRL and they've severely limited how I can handle the situation now that every one has gone mad. I tried to deal with the situation on the forum 2 weeks ago, but when people just started to make issues out of things that weren't in question, misconstrue my statements, and the persons who could back me up only lied about me or abandoned me while I was trying to protect them it just didn't seem worth it to keep trying and I have a pretty low opinion of the forum as it stands.
Poker coaching isn't my main income, my businesses are my main income, and I don't have a problem refunding people anything if I agreed to it or they deserve it - altho' I obviously take issue with people saying it's hundreds of thousands of dollars (I wish) when it's no more than 20 thousand dollars and I gave every one the choice to pay or not to pay at the end of every class. I mean one day every one is happy with my coaching, asking me to make videos for their coaching site and praising my posts, and the next day every one is claiming they were unhappy with my coaching all along (why didn't they refuse to pay after the class?) they were always suspicious of me (why did they never mention it before?) or they always knew I was a bad guy (when they were literally working with me or referring me to people) and the entire thing started with an extortion attempt.
Any way, sorry, I just needed to vent - I'll be in touch and at the very lest I appreciate your honesty on the matter.
From: Steve
Sent: Monday, June 14, 2010 1:29 PM
To: Memory Lane
Subject: Re: Refund - AceSweaty
Thomas
I just want my money and Birchinio (XXX on Skype) is the mate who's also trying to get a refund.
To address some of your points:
1)
I obviously take issue with people saying it's hundreds of thousands of dollars (I wish) when it's no more than 20 thousand dollars
That might not seem much but think about that in terms of small stakes buy-ins and students who in most cases are beating the game for 2ptbb at best.
2)
I gave every one the choice to pay or not to pay at the end of every class
SS students don't know what their leaks are otherwise they'd fix them without a coach. We don't know what we should be taught. We only had your credentials to go on (myself included). My game suffered. We lost money in the live sweat because you were erratic and over suspicious post-flop.
3)
They were always suspicious of me (why did they never mention it before?
Because it would be unfounded and many may not have had another coach to compare you to. More importantly you held a position of authority. I backed down against my better judgment solely because I thought it was counter-productive to spend too long disputing hands with a big winner (whilst paying him what is a massive real world hourly).
While you still have people's money can you see how we're getting inpatient? To be blunt no-one gives a **** about what's happening with your family or your other businesses. Those kind of issues only concern you and don't stop you posting on 2p2 or more importantly transferring back the money you stole.
You still keep ignoring any question relating to your winrate and the graph you stole and it's your complete lack of responsibility and inability to admit you ****ed up that's getting everyone so wound up.
I'd like an answer please. Are you going to transfer me the money you stole from me?
Steve
...
Day 4. Still pressing refresh on my inbox. Now offering 10-1 on a refund ($15 of action still up for grabs guys!).
Sorry to quote such a long message, but I had a very similar experience with BW via PM over the last few weeks.
After saying that he's been waiting for me to reply to him (when he hadn't PMed me) he actually PMed me.
Despite my many mentions of the results being made up, the graph being faked and so on, he did not once acknowledge these.
Perhaps he thinks that if he admits it then it is something that could hurt him legally, when everybody can plainly see in the 2p2 threads here what he claimed was not accurate.
I honestly think he just gets off on this. A lot of scammers like to take the sympathy route, like to talk to their victims, like to justify it to themselves and stay in the "action." He probably kind of likes being the center of attention. I doubt his family is getting many, if any, threatening phone calls. I doubt he's had to spend many, if any time in real life protecting his family.
The guy that extorted him in the first place was just some two bit scammer as it is, nothing more, nothing less. After the scams didn't work, I'm sure he moved on to a new target, hopeful of some quick and easy money.
It's just sad to see the apparently twisted version of what is going on here in BW's mind. It's so off base, so incorrect that it gives those mentally unfit comments some credibility, certainly more credibility than most of BW's unconfirmed claims of what has gone on.
The worst part is that he feels his money back guarantee is just a simple question after the session "you don't have to pay if you don't want to." I'm curious to know how many students were actually asked that, not to mention that it all goes out the window once you find out that the man was lying about his results to such an extent that he had to steal a graph. That's the part he either doesn't get or just wants to avoid. If Bernie Madoff had offered his clients their money back upon making an initial investment, do you think any of them would've said "sure?" No, because they were under the impression they were getting top rate service and had no major reason to believe otherwise. Then when it comes out that they got duped, scammed, robbed, they are entitled to a refund, or to split up whatever is left. I believe your students are entitled to the same.
But I don't even want BW to address these concerns anymore. Just refund whoever you're going to refund and get out (apparently that's already been done, or are we waiting on all these mysteriously frozen poker accounts of his to open back up?), nobody wants any more lies about floods of harassment, account activity nor some other irrelevant spin. That's gone on for weeks now.
Anyways, I just post here because I feel I've sat around here being fairly objective long enough, patiently biting my tongue and waiting to see if BW actually refunds some people. Refunds are stopping now it seems, and it's hard to not post after seeing users trade such similar messages with them that I did for weeks. Don't waste your time, you're just feeding the man entertainment to get off on.
At least we have improved the education of students on selecting a coach and at least the community is a little bit more aware of some of the common coaching scam techniques. That's the little bit of sunshine in this sad saga.
