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Red Line Coaching Red Line Coaching

05-17-2010 , 10:09 PM
Can anyone recommend good SSNL coaches that specialize in red line coaching?

I am not necessarily talking about pushing my red line to positive, more a TAG style that has a neutral or slightly losing red line.
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05-17-2010 , 11:03 PM
Thinking of it as, 'finding a redline coach' is just counterproductive. Almost like the chicken before the egg, having a high redline is just an outcome of your playing style. It shouldn't be worried about in most cases. Think of it insetad as trying to find a coach who "teaches solid poker".

anyways most of the people who do have issues in nonshowdown pots, are leaking in the following spots:

- they bet turn, without knowing river is a mandatory bet
- they cbet flops that almost always require 2 barrels when they dont have a hand/read worth of doing that
- they are calling chk/r without a plan for the turn
- they are calling 3bets, even in position, and leaving dead money on the table.
- they are saying to themselves "ill call two, and fold the river" without thinking of ranges and tendencies
- they are playing draws too passively, or over agressive, resultng in having to give up on many turns/rivers.
- they are not valuebetting thin enough, or turning made hands into bluffs ever.
- they aren't valuebetting enough, or correctly.
- they are generally playing way too many tables.

Really think about the above, and i believe you'll find your answer somewhere there if you're determined.
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05-18-2010 , 03:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkconcept
Thinking of it as, 'finding a redline coach' is just counterproductive. Almost like the chicken before the egg, having a high redline is just an outcome of your playing style. It shouldn't be worried about in most cases. Think of it insetad as trying to find a coach who "teaches solid poker".

anyways most of the people who do have issues in nonshowdown pots, are leaking in the following spots:

- they bet turn, without knowing river is a mandatory bet
- they cbet flops that almost always require 2 barrels when they dont have a hand/read worth of doing that
- they are calling chk/r without a plan for the turn
- they are calling 3bets, even in position, and leaving dead money on the table.
- they are saying to themselves "ill call two, and fold the river" without thinking of ranges and tendencies
- they are playing draws too passively, or over agressive, resultng in having to give up on many turns/rivers.
- they are not valuebetting thin enough, or turning made hands into bluffs ever.
- they aren't valuebetting enough, or correctly.
- they are generally playing way too many tables.

Really think about the above, and i believe you'll find your answer somewhere there if you're determined.
outstanding advice imo
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05-18-2010 , 06:20 PM
To add to DC,

1) You're not defending your BB enough, when the SB stealing range is between 30 and 60% you don't widen your calling range as much as you should

2) You're fit/fold post-flop after calling pre-flop OOP vs LP, you need to have a check-raise and leading game instead of just a check-calling and check-folding game or you're going to makes your non-SD line even worse.

3) You never raise the turn as a bluff or a semi-bluff ever.
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05-19-2010 , 01:18 PM
redline coaching is indeed a crazy idea
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05-19-2010 , 04:32 PM
Check your redline when you're not in the blinds. It's steadily positive right? So the problem is losing NSD from the blinds. To stop the bleeding simply shove 100% of the time when you are in the blinds. If there are limpers just open shove. If there's been a cold 5-bet and you have 53o 300bb deep in the BB just ship it in. Remember we don't play for money, we play for a red line, and this will help you achieve the sexy red line you have always dreamed about. pm me for rates.
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05-20-2010 , 02:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkconcept
Thinking of it as, 'finding a redline coach' is just counterproductive. Almost like the chicken before the egg, having a high redline is just an outcome of your playing style. It shouldn't be worried about in most cases. Think of it insetad as trying to find a coach who "teaches solid poker".

anyways most of the people who do have issues in nonshowdown pots, are leaking in the following spots:

- they bet turn, without knowing river is a mandatory bet
- they cbet flops that almost always require 2 barrels when they dont have a hand/read worth of doing that
- they are calling chk/r without a plan for the turn
- they are calling 3bets, even in position, and leaving dead money on the table.
- they are saying to themselves "ill call two, and fold the river" without thinking of ranges and tendencies
- they are playing draws too passively, or over agressive, resultng in having to give up on many turns/rivers.
- they are not valuebetting thin enough, or turning made hands into bluffs ever.
- they aren't valuebetting enough, or correctly.
- they are generally playing way too many tables.

Really think about the above, and i believe you'll find your answer somewhere there if you're determined.
yah i was going to say this. Dont worry about the redline. Worry about winning.
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05-24-2010 , 08:49 AM
isn't TRD23 a pokersavvy coach ?
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05-24-2010 , 09:00 AM
You can get the red line to neutral (probably positive) just by never folding once you put any money into the pot.
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05-24-2010 , 10:18 AM
You don't need to be that selective even, just play tight'ish and start three barrelling a lot once you decide to cbet else just c/f the flop, should give a nice positive redline .. it can even lead to one of those sexy graphs where you are winning but your blueline is negative ... at small stakes that is ..
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05-24-2010 , 11:20 AM
3bet more from the blinds in small stakes games against loose late position opens, cbet flop often if called ( about 1/2 pot if fine ). This should also help your redline lots.
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05-24-2010 , 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev123
3bet more from the blinds in small stakes games against loose late position opens, cbet flop often if called ( about 1/2 pot if fine ). This should also help your redline lots.
3betting more from the blinds is probably something a lot of ssnl regs should be doing less of.
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05-24-2010 , 04:12 PM
If I am 3 betting regularly out of position I'd prefer the late position player to fold with most of my hands.
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05-24-2010 , 05:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkconcept
3betting more from the blinds is probably something a lot of ssnl regs should be doing less of.
but we're not talking about winning money, we are talking about how to improve redline
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05-24-2010 , 05:47 PM
I`m kinda surprised DC says that ssnl players should do this less, I have a high 3bet% from the bb mainly and have a lot of success with that statagy.

What makes you say this DC, Is it players ability to hand read and playing inflated pots OOP ?

I agree you should be looking at players with high fold to 3bet % as well as them being a loose opener.

The games I`m playing in, it doesn`t make much sense to call OOP with hands like AT, AJ looking to call down as I find players at these stakes are just not barreling enough when they miss or thin for value. I would rather 3bet and take the pot down if possible, some player types are gonna call your 3bet with dominated hands and likely 4bet hands that dominate us. For the most part people at these stakes seem to fold to way to many 3bets or on the flop.
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05-24-2010 , 11:07 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by kev123
I`m kinda surprised DC says that ssnl players should do this less, I have a high 3bet% from the bb mainly and have a lot of success with that statagy.

What makes you say this DC, Is it players ability to hand read and playing inflated pots OOP ?

I agree you should be looking at players with high fold to 3bet % as well as them being a loose opener.

The games I`m playing in, it doesn`t make much sense to call OOP with hands like AT, AJ looking to call down as I find players at these stakes are just not barreling enough when they miss or thin for value. I would rather 3bet and take the pot down if possible, some player types are gonna call your 3bet with dominated hands and likely 4bet hands that dominate us. For the most part people at these stakes seem to fold to way to many 3bets or on the flop.
Your 3-bet from the blinds % is directly correlated to your opponents opening ranges from the button and cutoff and what their fold to 3-bet and 4-bet stats are. Its a bit more complex than just saying "most ssnl regs 3-bet too much from the blinds!" Theres things having a polarized vs. depolarized 3-betting range for starters.
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05-26-2010 , 11:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by darkconcept
3betting more from the blinds is probably something a lot of ssnl regs should be doing less of.
3betting more for value and 3betting less as a bluff, yeah, I think people just don't realize how lightly villain's are willing to call their 3bets these days.
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05-26-2010 , 10:16 PM
Fixing redline is not hard, stop folding.

Now lets find you a green line coach !
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