1, in general i am right

2, top players GENERALLY dont coach, and if they did they wudnt make terrible persuasion threads on 2p2 to drum up buisness. pathetic...

3, poker is fundamentally a simple game but all the subtleties and variables make it difficult to create a program to dominate the games. these variables are why you cant be taught poker but have to learn via experience

4, at least we agree u have no guarentee.

5, of course people get scammed paying money in advance to people they dont know and have never met

6, no you are!

Why would i waste me time convincing people what i say is true? I couldnt care less whehter u believe me.

The 40k BR was true till i ran bad, the 96 stacks in a day was obv a joke, and the nl2k shot obviously happened. If you dont believe me then i dont care, why would I care?

you know you make it really hard for people to agree with you when you say moronic stuff like this. you obviously care, and you have wasted a lot of time trying to make ppl agree with you. what you have wrote directly contradicts your posts in this thread.

fwiw i think you are right about most of the micro and low stakes players starting coaching threads or whatever, if they were any good they would just play and beat the games.

but good coaches actually exist, aren't worthless, and simply choose to coach because its effort and risk free money. if what you wrote about your poker past is true (i don't believe it really, either you are just a broke troll trying to rile people up or some reg. who's trying to rile people up), then you would certainly benefit from a good coach. you sound like a pretty big fish.

HU?

You're missing my point. I got coached, I got better, now I make a nice income from poker which I couldn't do untill i got coached.

I know that there are lots of very average players that try to make more money coaching, I agree with you on that aspect but to be as bold/ignorant to say that paying for coaching is '******ed' is just frankly a moronic thing to say.

I have proved you wrong, I have no idea why I felt the need to but how about this, I will agree with everything you say and conceed that you actually know how to play poker if you simply take a few minutes to post your HU2000 graph from your play yesturday or the day before, whenever it was?

To say the NL2000 shot 'obviously' happened is just absurd as there is nothing obvious about it, why is it obvious? it would be obvious with a quick graph pic however, but alas, if you're telling lies then you won't post the pic. So the real question is are you a lier or not?

I say no graph then the mods should lock the thread as the OP is obviously just some kid that is making a mockery of the forums. With no evidence of his claims or evidence of coaching being non beneficial then this thread has no need to be here, moving more worthy threads further down.

I'm only curious to ask where you learnt to play poker as losing $40,000 as your whole roll may suggest that you have a few leaks that a coach might be able to help with.

Good luck beating the NL5 games (with your now $100 roll), if you practice then it may happen one day and then you can coach other NL5 players as to how you managed it.

Broker

rofl @ this thread!

i dont even know how to comment tbh, im laughing really hard and trying to imagine how stupid OP is, and some of the people that agreed with him

Why are you all hating me?

I am trying to help people realise that getting convinced into taking coaching is ******ed. Funny how i make this thread and the only people who disagree with me are the guys who are trying to start up as coaches/ do coaching.

Its a disgrace that some of you charge what you do for such pointless 'lessons'.

I feel strongly that this explosion in coaching, with every donk who makes 2 BB/100 hands at nl200 trying to drum up buisness, is really bad for poker on so many levels. And the people it hurts most are the people who are too naiive to see past the pathetic threads people make on here to drum up buisness.

This didn't turn out to be ctfw trolling for action?

People hating me and disagreeing with me in this thread are the same people who are trying to get people to pay them for coaching. How sad and yet how predictable:

Kilink10k:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...inside-458093/


itwasadream:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...ilable-414125/

Fenderjaguar:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...max-fr-446068/

Grizy:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...-coach-246368/

Brokestar

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...-video-358948/

MindonMind

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...h-free-422106/

0evg0

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...max-hu-259060/

lego05

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...inside-432010/

Insane_steve

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...aching-332385/

alewis21

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...aching-460516/

I rest my case, gg guys.

It seems all you need to do is to win about $1500 over 6 months and then make a long post where you use the BOLD feature and make ur post look pretty and then u an charge $200 an hour for ur pointless services

what a joke, and what an even bigger joke it is that all u clowns feel the need to come to this thread and abuse me for trying to help people see past the pointless nature of paying u guys for coaching

pathetic, truely pathetic....

GG

What are you talking about, I don't hate you, I just don't get why you are a compulsive lier or feel the need to abuse people (calling us ******s) for wanting to better themselves?

Secondally I don't charge for coaching yet have helped people improve their game at stakes that I do not play as I learned a lot from the questions they posed to me that made me have to stop and think things through. Being able to beat poker for 2BB/100 at NL200 isn't that bad if you play volume, what's that $8000 a month over 100,000 hands (alot of hands to play in a month but many do) and about another $1500 in rakeback roughly?

LOL how pathetic! You make nearly $10,000 a month?

Alex Yen over at Card Runners charges $160 per hour and if you're playing NL100 - NL400 and struggling to win, a fresh pair of eyes on your game, especially his will help a lot if you really take in what he teaches, I should know, I'm a former student of his.

Also I remember I had a sick breakeven stretch last year and really tried to see if I had some huge leaks in my game as a result of playing too many tables. So I had a video review done by the guy who now owns/runs Pokerzion. That review cost me $150 and helped me a lot with some fundimental errors I had in my super nitty, multi tabling game which was clearly a result of running on auto pilot.

A friend of mine Alexg113 plays on Full Tilt. He couldn't beat NL50 and had no idea why, even after reading several good books. I did a few sessions with him, past on a lot of what I had been taught and he now beats NL200 for a nice clip over a 200,000 hand sample.

So I'm speaking from experience when I say that I don't feel ******ed for investing in myself. I really want to thank Sonny Thompson, Alex Yen and John Anholt for all of their help last year with my progression and I would be happy to pay them all over again if/when I ever need their help in the future.

I vouch for these guys 100%, I think they all have threads on here. Sonny was amazing for me at NL50, Alex for NL50 - NL100 and Pokerzion / video review I imagine will help most people at small to high stakes.

Coaching may not be for everyone and yes there are a lot of great resourses out there to help people, but once you've learned all that you can and/or reach a plateu in your development, a coach with a lot of experience and a lot of good feedback/testimonials will help you. How much it helps is down to you, your level of IQ and your want to really learn.

Lets finish by saying this, you can read books on Brazilian Ju Jit Su, then you can watch videos on youtube for a year and I assure you, you'll get tapped by anyone who has been 'coached' for only one month (even the small girls) buy the Brazilian black belt at the Gracie BJJ academy in Hammersmith. The fact that he teaches does not make him no good, and I learned more from him in a week than I could of ever learnt on my own.

Another real life story of coaching in work.

You have no point, you're just insulting people by calling them ******ed, you have your misguided views with no evidence to back them up.

Mods I was going to ask again to lock the thread, but maybe this fishes (OP) thread will atleast serve as futher testomonials to the coaches I have named.

Calling all players who have been coached to speak of their coaching experiences here and name drop a little so that some good will come of this otherwise idiotic thread.

And the irony will be that all of his 'coaching hatred' will actually serve as a platform to identify more great coaches.



Brokerstar

Firstly lets get this straight, this is my 2+2 coaching thread http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/10...oaches-452313/.

The thread you posted was where I was trying to get a good idea on what I should pay for coaching videos for my site and also because I was asked to make some videos for a webmaster of a different site, both nothing to do with ripping anyone off.

Now please show me where (On my thread) I have said in my thread that I charge anything???

Also my graph is over 200,000 hands at small stakes and I think you'll find I made $12,000 in that time not $1500!!

I am helping micro stake players get a foot on the ladder by quickly developing a solid TAG style that will beat NL10 -NL50 with no real problems where they can then use the money they win to further invest in themselves if they so choose or take advantage of the free dueces cracked membership or simply have some extra spending money.

There is no catch involved, you don't have to sign up to anything or pay anything to listen to how I managed to beat the games. I'm in no way saying I'm a master high stakes player (as I'm not) but I have smashed the low stakes games and I hope in the future that my site develops into a great resourse for players and coaches a like.

If you feel that this is and I quote 'pathetic, truely pathetic....' then you clearly feel the same way about 2+2 on the whole as it too is a platform for players to improve.

It sadens me that you feel the need to berate people for wanting to stay ahead of the competition and funnily enough I think you'll find all of the feedback I have is good.

Broker

I actually never said anything that either agreed nor disagreed with you about coaching. And btw I'm currently not coaching, though may do some more in May. I'm not 100% decided whether I want to do some coaching or if I just want to spend 35-45 hours a week playing ........ and also btw the prices I have in there are less than what I make by playing. And either way I am planning on getting coaching for myself this summer.

I don't get why you think it's pointless though. Is it pointless to get a coach for everything in life?

Sure I'll admit nearly everything I would try to teach someone could be found somewhere else. Whether or not they would ever find it and learn it as well on their own I don't know. And if they could it would probably take them a lot longer.



BUT I had never actually said anything about coaching in this thread before to either agree or disagree with you, except to comment on the legal issues you brought up. Other than the legal stuff all I posted was I want to play you HU. But now it doesn't look like you are willing or capable.




P.S.

Also I made $35K last year in a little under 400K hands, while playing about 10-15 hours a week; not $1500 in 6 months.

i didnt maKe that post so you can all come here and now defend the rates u charge etc.

I simply made the post to point out that the people who are berating me in this thread all have the same motive, i.e. they are offering coaching on this site and dont want people to think paying for coaching is ******ed.

The people i dont mind coming here and arguing that coaching is valid and important are people who have not coached, but instead have been coached and it has helped their game or people totally alien to the coaching world.

Basically the views of all the people who offer coaching are irrelevent in this thread because they all have an alterior motive for their comments

OP has a point but he has just taken it to such an extreme that it is no longer a valid point.

Well I made the post to point out I have not "berated" you about coaching. I never said anything in agreeance or disagreeance so I guess there was no reason for you to include my name.


Also btw I have been coached and it helped my game. I plan to get more coaching this summer and hopefully help my game more.

I don't charge people anything so am not defending my rates.
You opened yourself up for a little light berating when you insult people by calling them ******ed and lie about your poker experience/stakes played/$40,000 roll, please feel free to prove me wrong and post a graph and I will appologise.

No you do mind people defending coaching because you are probably a huge loser. If you wanted people to tell you about good experiences then you would of started a thread titled "If you have been coached and really think it is worth it I want to know" or something to that affect.

Again the coaches that I mentioned who helped my game (Alex Yen, Sonny Thompson and John Anhalt) were all great coaches and helped me in different ways based on their coaching style. I have no affiliation with them and wanted to mention the fact that I'm a winning player is very much down to their help. So again this is what you wanted to hear, right?

you are not asking a question, you are TELLING people that it is ******ed which makes coaches and students alike want to tell you that you're wrong. Again maybe if you rephrased the title of your post and perhaps had slightly better people skills, people wouldn't be 'hating you'.

Also I know I keep saying it but people also tend to take an automatic disliking to people who lie. So maybe if you post a graph of your skills and show that coaching is not needed then maybe you'd have some credibility.

Anything else you want me to help you with?

Broker

OP have you been coached at all?

YOU OFFERED COACHING SERVICES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

shut up.

as a joke to someone i know in an unrelated part of the forum. I have explained this to you repeatedly, yet you seem to ignore me everytime i explain myself on this issue. i have never, and would never, coach anyone for any money.

Ask your lawyer friend if he knows anyone who charges $300+/hour for knowledge anyone can find in a book.

OP is right you know.

A lesson in how to turn (clearly an imaginary) $40,000 roll into $100 can be learned by anyone without a poker coach I agree with you.

So OP moving this topic into a more productive direction (because I'm sure that's what you want) what would your advice to new players be in terms of becoming as good as you, for free? You know, not being reterded

Genius!

OP people aren't 'hating' you because you're trying to expose the truth to some coaching conspiracy. They don't hate you because they think you are threatening their business. And though your empty claims about how coaching is a waste of money are somewhat asinine and an abuse to our first ammendment, they weren't enough to attract the brunt of 2p2ers' hate.

It is your pathetic slew of pathelogical lies, your narcism, and the need to live vicariously through some image of what you think you should be, but aren't. This is what compels people to respond. We all know you never had a 40k bankroll, and we all know that you have mediocre - at best - poker skill (that ironically could be improved through coaching). But through this thread and previous posts others have asked you to explain, you feel the need to convince complete strangers, virtual people if you will, that you are up ONE THOUSAND dollars in your lifetime of poker, after taking a tumultous fall from glory.

Perhaps you are a really successful businessman who gets bored and gets off on people bashing him on online forums. Or maybe you are 12 years old. The image you give off, however, is a scruffy thirty year old living in his own filth; who is too lazy or too scared to actually make something of himself, so he pretends to have made 9.6k in one night.

This sir, is what got my attention.

Did the coaches get coached at some point? Or are they just more self sufficient than you?

Some of them didn't. A lot of them did.

Dude...read your freaking post. The way it's worded makes it 1000% impossible to be "a joke"--"PM me, I'm a sick coach". You offered to coach someone, straight up.

...and nothing you say in here is credible given all of the other B.S. you've spewed about having a $40k roll, winning $9,600 in one night, with a 24bb/100h win rate. You spew a lot more than just chips dude.