What does it matter whether or not he owes money to other people? What does that have to do with YOUR transaction with him? Absolutely nothing. "insert company name" doesn't look to see if you owe somebody money when they have to give you a refund, do they?

Pay him the money if that is his desired route and stop dicking around with your "technicalities".

The money are from freerolls and this isnt connected with the thing that YOU MUST REFUND ME. Even if i scammed people (which i didnt) you have no right to not refund me

Are you idiot or sthing? You try to add potatos with tomatos? Stop fooling around and pay me asap. ****ing filthy lier. You said i blackmailed you and still no asnwer how. FIlthy lier

I am not alone as you can see. But you past this like never happened

In the interest of fairness to Gordon, I must point out that it was never stated anywhere on his website that his 6max course had a refund. Only HU MM.

I simply asked for a refund because I was unsatisfied. He said no. End of discussion. He is not obligated to refund me for that course. To his credit he offered me a free coaching session, which I politely declined.

Thanks for mentioning, because this also shows how old the page is to which grindto live is referring, since back then (prolly more than year ago) i only had the HU program.
Btw, that is standard procedure to offer the free coaching lesson.
Usually i then refund and give the lesson for free. If you care, i can put you in touch with one guy where it went (similar) to this.


Btw, i have asked Grindtolive for his paypal, so that i can send. Awaiting an answer.

To give everybody a bit of a taste what hasn't been published:

Here is his answer after a PM that i have sent him after having refunded him for a HUSNG product (i'm not the producer).

IIRC i have told him that we usually don't refund and there is no refund for HU Mastermind. He then answered :


He didn't ask after 2 days. He asked less than 24 hours. Congrats. Go through the thread, this guy changes his opinions every hour.


Then i have answered him:



Ok, now before you come with your prejudices because i use some heavy marketing, please at least read before you keep calling names.

I ask that the guy gives it a fair shot. Nothing else. I then said i would send a refund if he does. End of story.

More proof needed?

those are PMs that he has sent. I have more of them. More emails. You can read it all.

I would not be even surprised if this was Gordon's second account

Me too

Pls any Mod do a IP check on "Eu.Era." /// so we can stop this conspiracy.

He also posts on bestpokercoachign forum and has said to have many posts on DeucesCracked.

I even have sent him a PM yesterday telling him i appreciate that he defends me, but told him he does not have to, nor that it would change much.

Mods pls verify. Thx.

search me on deucescracked and leggopoker, that is an atrocious and vile accusation.

I really don't see how it is an "atrocious and vile accusation". I thought it was an interesting coincidence that there were 2 new posters in here backing up Gordon who were also only posting in the Notecaddy Advantage thread(minus a "1st" post by Era in the Leatherass thread). I think it is a coincidence but this just shows you that the community does not trust Gordon nor the "new" posters coming in and backing him up.

It is very easy to create fake accounts, have different IP addresses, etc online. A week ago there was a quadriplegic/cerebral palsy guy on twitter who was outed as not being who he was and was misleading everyone for years. The internet is an easy place to scam people. This community seems to have had it's fair share of scamming so it makes sense people by default do not trust others.

I think you expected this question after "him" being the only one defending you. Beating yourself over the head for not thinking about this almost two years ago when you were starting this thread you decided not to mess up again and PMed yourself so the MODS can verify his very existence. You knew the only methods of verification would be possible through an IP address and a HW ID. Thanks to previous experience of unlocking porn pics of German girls and not giving refunds you managed to get yourself a powerful proxy software and a brand new computer. The plan was seemingly nontransparent....

Well do your research. I have never been interested in posting on 2+2 i lurk like once a month when i have nothing to do. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that in any way. I play halo and i am not part of any halo forum.

I did do my research and like I said it looks to be a coincidence. There is nothing wrong with lurking. Feel free to do whatever you want, but don't expect people to just give you the trust/benefit of the doubt when you come in here only to back up a potentially shady coach and have never posted before. My warning bells got set off when you and another guy were posting in this thread to back up Gordon and you both only post in one other thread and it happens to be the same one!

At least we got the Conspiracy out of the way. Like always, if people care to read...

Its so much easier and fun to just post. Ok

I've sent/ refunded the money, now expecting at least a confirmation. He promised me to answer in the thread as well.

I searched you on LeggoPoker. Your account logs in from 16 different IP addresses which makes it likely you share your account which is against our terms and conditions. You could be logging in from different IP's for another reason but I'm not sure what that would be.

Gordon FINALLY sent me the money

He told me to tell that he never said that he will refund me if i requested.

Obviously i cant do this and here is how the things are:

1) He told me if i do homework and dont succeed the he will refund me
2) He didnt told me that if i didnt do all the homework or didnt watch all the videos he will not refund
3) No10 in his site. I can request a refund withn 30 days

I had 2k roll. I withdraw 660$ to buy his product. Next two days i lost 400$+ and i decide to close my subscription because it wasnt lead anywhere. These are the facts that i mention over and over again

Because i am fair and honest Gordon said that he will let my subscription open and i will have access to his videos. Maybe in 3-4 months i will be back to give them a shot but with current circumistances i just cant

These are the facts and do your own estimations. I think any logical person will see that i should get the refund AND will see that Gordon tries to give me some support. Bad timing now. See you in 3-4 months maybe


Money sent. Finally

I cant explain 16 different ips i dont really know how it works (does ressetting my router or service providor change my ip?). i will have gone on leggo at work on different pcs, at my house on 3 different pcs and at my girlfriends on 2 different pcs. Please don't accuse me of sharing my account when i really dont.

Eu.Era, can you please discuss this with Matt via PM ? /// just not to clutter the thread. What the two of you do/decide is obv up to you.

If anybody needs help from my side, let me know.



@GrindToLive:

I can post many more things like how you gave outrageous promises so i would send you the money. You never mentioned the oldpage on my site before in any other conversation. Not even on your first refund.

I still have to think if I post other stuff, perhaps that will make people understand better why i did what i did. If you look throughout the majority of the thread, i get praise how i treat people.
Nobody behaved the way this guy did.


Anyways, he got what he wanted.


I clearly made some mistakes handling this case, cuz i'm an idealist by nature. I should have smelled it earlier, clearly my fault.

Some words did hurt, they were not justified. On the other side, its a great lesson to have learnt.

this is kinda hilarious tbh. i'm all for pitchforks and that when it comes to scummy coaches but this guy, grindtolive:

- buys the poker course
- understands that he needs to do homework, etc before he can get a refund
- he proceeds to play HUNL cash with a ~13 BI roll, loses 4BI doing the homework and is now going nuts over the fact that he can't complete the homework because his roll is too small?

I mean everything else aside (yes, it would have been much, much simpler to just refund the moran and not turn this into a ridiculous poo-flinging contest), does this seem alright with everyone?

I'm not saying that what G2L did means he does not deserve a refund, or that he does deserve a refund. I'm just saying if all of you guys that posted ITT would hypothetically offer coaching with a refund-guarantee that hinges on the student actually doing the work required before asking for a refund, would you feel this student's behaviour is acceptable?


Of course, if you want to offer such a guarantee you need to make everything absolutely clear, make sure your student is not playing HUNL with a 13bi roll, or that at least he drops down in stakes for his practice, but I'm just kinda surprised not that there was so much hate towards "Gordon", but that there was very little poo flinged at our friendly student here.

My $0.02 as well as first and last post ITT as I really don't care either way since i find it pretty obvious that both parties involved show a non-zero level of shadyness and bull****.

@ "Gordon", honestly, I don't understand why you did not post all communication with G2L in the first place. If there's something to see in there, then just post it all from the get-go and have it be done with.


@ everyone else: Honestly, I *want* to "hate" TiT, but I can't get past the fact that a lot of the **** i've seen here points to the fact that G2L is ****ing shady (another recent refund, unpaid freerolls whatever the f that is, asking for a refund 24h after the purchase) and to be completely honest, if I had been in TiT's shoes (and if everything he's stated about the situation is true*) I would be somewhat pissed at this guy asking for his 2nd refund after not having completed the "homework".

Lastly, apologies if anything in there doesn't make sense, I've read half the ****-storm yesterday and the rest today post-session, I'm tired and there's a decent chance I misunderstood/forgot/etc something.


* would be much easier to gauge if he'd just posted all the damn conversations between himself and G2L to begin with, not bit by bit every 10th post or w/e

Basically I'm still unclear about what the website said, what their agreement was, etc but if the bottom line was that the guy was supposed to do the HW to get the refund, I'm sorry bro but what the facks are you thinking doing "homework", AKA practicing **** you're not good at with a 13 buyin roll? Which is actually a 4 buyin roll because after he lost 4 buyins he called it quits.

After he lost 4 buyins, did it occur to him to drop down in stakes and continue the "homework"? Or did he just snap-ask for the refund? Just curious.

And I can't overstate this:

I count three times this grindtolive character has has asked for a refund from coaches within the last few months (looks like he is going to get it 2/3 because some other coach said no). Coaches beware, do not sell any product to this guy.

girah was a coach for pokerstrategy and fooled several high stakes players into thinking he was the real deal.

most of your students will likely be losing players or small winners. given that girah managed to mislead players who were on average better than your students, it should be obvious how easy it is for someone who apparently specializes in marketing to convince players that you're their saviour.

there is nothing that stops you from creating 1 account at every european site and then only use the small sample sizes (hello 5k and 75k sample size) in which you've run hot to "prove" you're good. do you really think your edge against other regulars over 5k hands is so high that you can run 13 buy ins under EV and still have a "double digit" winrate on average? That claim is similar to claiming you're the #1 ranked poker coach, or in your words "bull****".

It should be pretty obvious that with all the poker sites available and you being able to cherry pick the ones you had good results on that a small sample size when you've been a player for this long makes you look even more shady.

so once again I'd like to ask you to disclose your screen names and I'll be willing to donate money to charity when you decide to do so. Seeing as how you're a nice and humble person helping these poor kids when all you have to do is link to your PTR accounts sounds like a good deal to me!

I should have no problem disclosing this information about my career, one would think

.

Bis are 28. First day i loose 4 and i ask a refund after watch 3 videos which was been rejected
Second day i watch 2-3 more and i loose another 4bis and i ask the refund as promised in the SITE
There are so many lies in your post and of course all in favor of Gordon. Hmmmm



This is obvious a lie. I requested refund only for hu sng for newbies and hu mastermind. The first is very low quality and i will explain

1) Author doesnt discuss how should we play in different blind levels which is a MUST
2) Videos forward while the author talks about previous situations and then he pauses ask sorry and return. THis happened at least 5 times


Even if it wasnt the second the first is a must. PERIOD

Well, this is weird.

If there is someone who's style (and frequency!) of posts were an issue here, it was Gordon and his ad hominems. I am surprised someone could have possibly missed that!


And it was also what (legitimately!) caused most of the style/frequency issues he got in response.



I do not see, btw, as an ordinary reader and someone who's receiving coaching, anything wrong with the "frequency" of the posts of any particular side here. Because it was a normal conversation.
One side posts the arguments, the other posts a reply and their arguments, and it goes back and forth - and both sides were posting with the same frequency, were they not?


Hell, even if Gordon was trying to play dumb and not reply, if they have legitimate points to make, well, they have legitimate points to make. If they have some more, they have some more. And they SHOULD make them if they have them.



Nobody is REALLY thinking like a policeman here and posting ONLY in order to help the community.
People generally act out of "This is simply wrong / unethical / shady" motives. However, that's a legit cause as well, and I see nothing wrong with it; and, moreover, the two are closely linked together.


I see zero point in harping on those who put themselves on the line here merely for the reason of them not being" perfect policemen" or that not being their "sole aim" or whatever. Acting out of what is morally right is perfectly fine with me. So why, exactly, would THEIR actions be nitpicked?
These claims in their direction are verging on ad homineming people some more for no reason and when their points were legit all along.
It appears as if you're not acknowledging they had a cause for all that here, the root, which were Gordon's actions.


You reap what you sow.

His point was they claimed they where doing the community a favour and he observed that was clearly not the only reason. You should fully understand something before you make a sizeable post like that which was basically a load of tosh.