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Old 04-28-2009, 11:48 AM   #1
IpwnFish
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doughnutz ?!

Hi im trying to learn LH, especially SH so i watched a ton of stoxpoker LHE videos most of them from doughnutz.

His losse agressive style (very loose) intrigued me at first and i was wondering what his winrate was.

Today i found http://tableratings.com/stars-player-search/doughnutz and was like

Why is this guy a stoxpoker coach ? why is he teaching me how to play when he is losing at a abnormal rate ?

someone enlighten me please !
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:08 PM   #2
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Re: doughnutz ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by IpwnFish View Post
Hi im trying to learn LH, especially SH so i watched a ton of stoxpoker LHE videos most of them from doughnutz.

His losse agressive style (very loose) intrigued me at first and i was wondering what his winrate was.

Today i found http://tableratings.com/stars-player-search/doughnutz and was like

Why is this guy a stoxpoker coach ? why is he teaching me how to play when he is losing at a abnormal rate ?

someone enlighten me please !
TableRatings is completely, insanely, ridiculously wrong.

I'm not quite sure how they managed to be SO far off, really. A few weeks ago it had me down about $150k, which itself was wrong. Then the next time I checked it (during which time I was down maybe $30k), it had me down $450k. I've actually e-mailed them about it but they haven't responded.
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Old 04-28-2009, 12:25 PM   #3
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Re: doughnutz ?!

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Originally Posted by IpwnFish View Post
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:03 PM   #4
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Re: doughnutz ?!

Tableratings is awfully inaccurate. Just look at some of the hand histories. You will find several that simply cannot be accurate, for no one would ever play the hand in such a horrible fashion, yet tableratings claims it happened. Site = joke.

Last edited by PokerBob; 04-28-2009 at 01:09 PM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:09 PM   #5
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Re: doughnutz ?!

Although a sick part of me kinda wants to wait for the haters to all chime in about how awful I am (for the 100th time), I figure I should probably nip this in the bud.

My Hold'em Manager database, which goes back about 9 months (and as it happens I was up $500,000 in the previous 4 months), shows that I played 249,771 hands on Pokerstars with a net loss of $14,181 and a winrate of -0.11BB/100. Not what I expect from myself to be sure, but in my defense I was actually down 1240 BBs at hand 97,000 and am now down "only" 280 BBs. And I'll spare you all the ridiculous details of just how bad I've run.

Despite this super-fun break-even stretch, "lifetime" I'm up a little under $2,000,000.

Oh, and I did finally just hear back from TableRatings. Their entire response was "Although we capture a vast majority of the hands on Poker Stars, we cannot guarantee 100% accuracy as we do not capture every hand." hahahaha. What a joke.

If someone can tell me how to post HEM graphs I'll do that.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:41 PM   #6
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Re: doughnutz ?!

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Originally Posted by Hock_ View Post
Although a sick part of me kinda wants to wait for the haters to all chime in about how awful I am (for the 100th time), I figure I should probably nip this in the bud.

My Hold'em Manager database, which goes back about 9 months (and as it happens I was up $500,000 in the previous 4 months), shows that I played 249,771 hands on Pokerstars with a net loss of $14,181 and a winrate of -0.11BB/100. Not what I expect from myself to be sure, but in my defense I was actually down 1240 BBs at hand 97,000 and am now down "only" 280 BBs. And I'll spare you all the ridiculous details of just how bad I've run.

Despite this super-fun break-even stretch, "lifetime" I'm up a little under $2,000,000.

Oh, and I did finally just hear back from TableRatings. Their entire response was "Although we capture a vast majority of the hands on Poker Stars, we cannot guarantee 100% accuracy as we do not capture every hand." hahahaha. What a joke.

If someone can tell me how to post HEM graphs I'll do that.
right click the graph and select 'save as'. make sure to save it as a jpg file or some similar format. my hem always defaulted to a .efm file or something that wasn't compatible with a lot of hosting sites.

After you've saved the file just go to imageshack.us and browse your hard drive for the photo you want to put here, find it and click 'upload'. on the page that subsequently comes up scroll down and copy the link that is entitled 'hot link for forums' and paste that along with whatever you want to write in a thread/response. the photo will show up in the thread.
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Old 04-28-2009, 01:57 PM   #7
Muraca
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Re: doughnutz ?!

actually dough is def the worst player ever

learn lhe and go play him

tr is still wildly inaccurate

/end thread

Last edited by Muraca; 04-28-2009 at 02:01 PM. Reason: lets be honest
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Old 04-28-2009, 03:30 PM   #8
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Graphs





As you can see, I lost a few hundred this afternoon. A few more days like this and TableRatings will have me down a million.
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Old 04-28-2009, 04:50 PM   #9
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Re: doughnutz ?!

is that all sites or just stars
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:04 PM   #10
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Re: doughnutz ?!

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Originally Posted by bicyclekick View Post
is that all sites or just stars
Just Stars
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:42 PM   #11
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Re: doughnutz ?!

BK and I were driving with Greg Debora (mostly live 1/2 player) a week ago and BK was putzing around on TR during the ride, so we looked up Greg's FTP name. He estimated he's played at least 50k hands on FTP since TR started tracking it -- they had 2,000 hands. Even if Greg's estimation of how many hands he's played was vastly off (doubt it), it's still a huge % of his hands missing.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:01 PM   #12
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Table ratings being way off is good for people like myself who don't have entrenched reputations if it is has me losing. I am tempted to write and complain if it has my numbers correct or is inflating my wr.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:04 PM   #13
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Re: doughnutz ?!

Learning how to play poker from doughnutz is like learning how to be a donkey in the game.

I suggest you to learn from the God of Poker, the best in the game, David Slanksky.

Read and reread all of his books.
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:56 PM   #14
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Re: doughnutz ?!

I actully like doughnutz videos. He sounds so reasonable, tallks about leaks, tendencies, epxploitive plays and so on, and so on.

And he speaks so confident and calm while beating some microstakes donks...

So I find myself almost forgetting how bad he really is.

Last edited by feruell; 04-28-2009 at 08:04 PM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 08:35 PM   #15
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Re: doughnutz ?!

I assume that the tableratings errors are errors of omission, not incorrect hands. If this data is incomplete, than it is a huge coincidence that its only capturing losing hands/sessions?
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Old 04-28-2009, 09:36 PM   #16
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Re: doughnutz ?!

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Originally Posted by J_V View Post
I assume that the tableratings errors are errors of omission, not incorrect hands. If this data is incomplete, than it is a huge coincidence that its only capturing losing hands/sessions?
Given how imbalanced the results are I don't think we can make that assumption.
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:42 PM   #17
suzy89222
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Re: doughnutz ?!

for me, stars is insanely off but full tilt is close to accurate. is that not the case with everyone?
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:46 PM   #18
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Re: doughnutz ?!

both stars and ftp have 30-35% of my hands.
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Old 04-28-2009, 10:50 PM   #19
snorfarfar
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Re: doughnutz ?!

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Originally Posted by suzy89222 View Post
for me, stars is insanely off but full tilt is close to accurate. is that not the case with everyone?
+1
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:02 PM   #20
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Re: doughnutz ?!

I'm bribing a mod to ban whoever talks about how their tableratings is missing their hands again, EVERYONE GETS IT BY NOW. That said, I might've broken my own legs if I went through an almost 300k hand stretch where i lost like 500 bets or whatever you have done (guesstimating ftp stuff, so maybe im off there)

I'm impressed that you still grind like you do.

Last edited by hoppscot22; 04-28-2009 at 11:20 PM.
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Old 04-28-2009, 11:05 PM   #21
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Re: doughnutz ?!

I think some people have mentioned seeing some hands recorded twice on TR as separate hands.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:37 AM   #22
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Re: doughnutz ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by hoppscot22 View Post
I'm bribing a mod to ban whoever talks about how their tableratings is missing their hands again, EVERYONE GETS IT BY NOW. That said, I might've broken my own legs if I went through an almost 300k hand stretch where i lost like 500 bets or whatever you have done (guesstimating ftp stuff, so maybe im off there)

I'm impressed that you still grind like you do.
Well its a bit tougher someone like Dough or Schneids who are coaches and make some income based on their own reputations. If TR is off then they suffer somewhat when people stop watching their videos. Also most beginners are clueless about variance. I remember running at like 3bb/100 over like 20k hands and getting all kinds of compliments.
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:33 PM   #23
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Re: doughnutz ?!

The key to success in LHE is making less mistakes than your opponent. In this hand, I think doughnutz's flop c/r is a small-to-medium sized mistake, while his opponent's flop bet is a small mistake and his river bet is a big mistake. Doughnutz wins 2-1 and is justly awarded the pot.

Poker Stars $50/$100 Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with 6 2
utg calls, 2 folds, doughnutz calls, Hero checks

Flop: (3 SB) A 2 T (3 players)
doughnutz checks, Hero checks, utg bets, doughnutz raises, Hero folds, utg calls

Turn: (3.5 BB) 8 (2 players)
doughnutz bets, utg calls

River: (5.5 BB) 5 (2 players)
doughnutz checks, utg bets, doughnutz calls

Final Pot: 7.5 BB
doughnutz shows 7 5 (a pair of Fives)
utg shows J K (high card Ace)
doughnutz wins 7.48 BB
(Rake: $2.00)
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:36 PM   #24
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Re: doughnutz ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by efficacy View Post
The key to success in LHE is spewing with trash that backs into the best hand at showdown
imo
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Old 04-29-2009, 03:47 PM   #25
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Re: doughnutz ?!

Quote:
Originally Posted by efficacy View Post
The key to success in LHE is making less mistakes than your opponent. In this hand, I think doughnutz's flop c/r is a small-to-medium sized mistake, while his opponent's flop bet is a small mistake and his river bet is a big mistake. Doughnutz wins 2-1 and is justly awarded the pot.

Poker Stars $50/$100 Limit Hold'em - 5 players
The Official 2+2 Hand Converter Powered By DeucesCracked.com

Pre Flop: (1.5 SB) Hero is BB with 6 2
utg calls, 2 folds, doughnutz calls, Hero checks

Flop: (3 SB) A 2 T (3 players)
doughnutz checks, Hero checks, utg bets, doughnutz raises, Hero folds, utg calls

Turn: (3.5 BB) 8 (2 players)
doughnutz bets, utg calls

River: (5.5 BB) 5 (2 players)
doughnutz checks, utg bets, doughnutz calls

Final Pot: 7.5 BB
doughnutz shows 7 5 (a pair of Fives)
utg shows J K (high card Ace)
doughnutz wins 7.48 BB
(Rake: $2.00)
This is just like the Special Olympics; they are competing and a winner is declared, but it doesn't mean that anyone is any good.
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