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Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read.

02-04-2010 , 04:02 PM
Dude whatever. Basically you're saying that most people who currently coach aren't worthy their price and that instead, people should hire you. Yeah, makes sense since you charge an insane amount of 475$/h and this would be great business for you.

I mean, as much money as you're making, do you really need to charge people 475$/h per hour? You talk about how coaching "puts food on the table" when you consistently make more money than 98% of winning online players.

I think its just insane that poker coaches make x amount more than a doctor or engineer. Seriously, if coaches are so awesome, why do they charge so much? For the same reason people sell jesus-shaped toasts, because they can!

The best thing is, if you do badly, the coach can just say "dont worry, you're running badly".

I think poker players coach because its so damn profitable and variance free. I think most poker coaches would love to stop playing and just coach full time. The 475/h is just an attempt to try to make as much as he would playing.

Basically, all im saying is that its crazy how much poker coaches charge. I think its stupid that people actually pay so extremely much for coaching. I mean, just because someone is a good player doesn't automatically mean they are good coaches.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-04-2010 , 05:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojangles90
Dude whatever. Basically you're saying that most people who currently coach aren't worthy their price and that instead, people should hire you. Yeah, makes sense since you charge an insane amount of 475$/h and this would be great business for you.

I mean, as much money as you're making, do you really need to charge people 475$/h per hour? You talk about how coaching "puts food on the table" when you consistently make more money than 98% of winning online players.

I think its just insane that poker coaches make x amount more than a doctor or engineer. Seriously, if coaches are so awesome, why do they charge so much? For the same reason people sell jesus-shaped toasts, because they can!

The best thing is, if you do badly, the coach can just say "dont worry, you're running badly".

I think poker players coach because its so damn profitable and variance free. I think most poker coaches would love to stop playing and just coach full time. The 475/h is just an attempt to try to make as much as he would playing.

Basically, all im saying is that its crazy how much poker coaches charge. I think its stupid that people actually pay so extremely much for coaching. I mean, just because someone is a good player doesn't automatically mean they are good coaches.
Yeah but at least with boywonder you are getting a guy who is making over $475 an hour beating the games today and who obviously will have great insight into beating todays games. There are other guys out there charging more who have won nothing in nearly two years and hardly even play these days.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-05-2010 , 05:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PokerStorm
Yeah but at least with boywonder you are getting a guy who is making over $475 an hour beating the games today and who obviously will have great insight into beating todays games. There are other guys out there charging more who have won nothing in nearly two years and hardly even play these days.
Im sure there are A LOT of coaches who have the same "insight" and knowledge of todays games. Im not sure they are winning as much as Boywonder but surely they would make just as capable coaches as Boywonder.

Im just saying, why should people get BOYWONDER to coach them instead of other guys who have experience in coaching?

Anyway, obviously my whole premise goes out the window if BW's true winrate actually is 10bb/100. I would really like someone to comment on whether this is even a possible true winrate. If it is and if Boywonder has it, yeah I pretty much give up my argument. Allthought, even if he IS such a huge winner, it doesnt mean he is able to transfer his knowledge onto a student.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-05-2010 , 09:39 PM
Quote:
I think I can flat out say that they are so overpriced in regards to their winrates and what I have seen from them at the tables that the best thing they can do is either improve or change their line of business because coaching wonīt last forever, and theyīre not making that much playing anyway......

The responsibility and selfinsight lies and should lie with the coach.
I find these two statements to be the most interesting in your post. It seems you are suggesting that there are coaches out there with winrates much lower than yours making plays you don't agree with that also charge an hourly rate that you think is too high. Your suggestion to these people is to quit coaching.....or "improve." Why? Is it because it's unfair to the consumer or the unregulated coaching market?

There are without a doubt coaches that exist that are not as good at coaching as other coaches who may or may not charge more than them. This doesn't necessarily make them ineffective as a teacher. All it means is that the student might get more for their money somewhere else.

The second part I quoted is heavily related to the first. I can certainly see how someone who believes the second statement could logically deduce the first. Your statement implies that the student/consumer has very little, if any responsibility when it comes to getting coaching. The coach does have a responsibility. And that is simply to provide the student with the best coaching they know how to give. The student has the responsibility to make sure that they are getting the best coaching they can for THEIR money.

Your main argument against that is that a large percentage of these students just don't know any better and can't properly evaluate a coach or the knowledge they are given. While that may very well be the case for many people who seek poker coaching, that fact does not mean that coaches need a certain winrate or should bear an extra responsibility or should modify their rates based on recent results. It just means that there are alot of people out there who aren't very good poker coaching consumers. This will not change.

The travel industry has a consumer run site called tripadvisor where people can post unbiased reviews and pictures from their trips. It would be a good thing for poker coaching to have something similar. That could def help with some of your concerns.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-06-2010 , 12:05 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bojangles90
Dude whatever. Basically you're saying that most people who currently coach aren't worthy their price and that instead, people should hire you. Yeah, makes sense since you charge an insane amount of 475$/h and this would be great business for you.

I mean, as much money as you're making, do you really need to charge people 475$/h per hour? You talk about how coaching "puts food on the table" when you consistently make more money than 98% of winning online players.

I think its just insane that poker coaches make x amount more than a doctor or engineer. Seriously, if coaches are so awesome, why do they charge so much? For the same reason people sell jesus-shaped toasts, because they can!

The best thing is, if you do badly, the coach can just say "dont worry, you're running badly".

I think poker players coach because its so damn profitable and variance free. I think most poker coaches would love to stop playing and just coach full time. The 475/h is just an attempt to try to make as much as he would playing.

Basically, all im saying is that its crazy how much poker coaches charge. I think its stupid that people actually pay so extremely much for coaching. I mean, just because someone is a good player doesn't automatically mean they are good coaches.
That's pretty much what he's saying. IF you want to get coaching from him do you homework and make sure he's worth $475/h instead of taking his word for it.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-06-2010 , 12:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SquirrelsUnite
That's pretty much what he's saying. IF you want to get coaching from him do you homework and make sure he's worth $475/h instead of taking his word for it.
Yes, Bojangles, the above sums it up.

I can absolutely understand where you are coming from, and I don't blaim you. Who could?

I do have a winrate of 10 bb / 100 playing midstakes at midstakes stretching well over a million hands now, 700 k of those hands in this desktop. Thatīs posted in my coaching thread.

As far as coaching goes, I put up a thread titled "Destroyed 3/6", august of 2008. I was approached by about 7 training sites, including Leggo. I turned them down at the time. In the months after, just based on that thread, I think I may have received upwards of fifty or more different types of coaching requests that I decided not to pursue, and continued to get offers from training sites that I politely declined.

It was only in december of 2009, about 16 months later which is a lifetime in this industry, that I deemed myself ready and enthusiastic to take it up, and only in the light of having an enjoyable pro-bono coaching experience in the interim. So one might say that no, not everybody wants to enhance their bottom line through coaching, at least I didnīt when my hourly was lower than it is now. But if I want to justify doing it as opposed to doing anything else in life that takes time away from what is genuinely important to me, which is my family, I have to base it somewhat on my hourly.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-06-2010 , 12:31 PM
As a footnote to the above, on the topic of being able to transfer knowledge onto your students.

This is a very good point. What I maintained in my original post, was that I believe that with these premium prices, the combination of great grasp of tactics, abilty to teach, updated connection to the relevant games and trends, motivation to actually make the student a better player, and other factors should all be present in the coach.

But in the pokerclimate of today, deducing wether or not one has the ability to clarify ones thoughts in a clear manner, is much easier by for instance watching an instructors videos and hearing them explain their thought-processes, than to deduce if they are actually in touch with the games and the winning trends of the games today.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-06-2010 , 10:50 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boywonder
But if I want to justify doing it as opposed to doing anything else in life that takes time away from what is genuinely important to me, which is my family, I have to base it somewhat on my hourly.
I gave you props in the other thread, but this is a bit ridiculous. The value of your product, what you have to offer and it uniqueness, demand for your product, etc. = $475/hour. Ok that's fine.

Now I'm in a different financial situation than yourself, but even if I had a million in the bank, I'm going to make time for $400/hour to coach a couple times a week. That's money that's going to go a long way to make for a better life for my family. Maybe you're different than myself. If so, I respect that, but would you pass on potentially making an extra $31,200/year charging $300/hour for 2 1-hour lessons 2 times a week for a year?

I know that's a small percentage of what you make a year, but that's sure a lot better than watching Grey's Anatomy every week and can go to making a better life for your family too.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-06-2010 , 11:22 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by BraveJayhawk
I gave you props in the other thread, but this is a bit ridiculous. The value of your product, what you have to offer and it uniqueness, demand for your product, etc. = $475/hour. Ok that's fine.

Now I'm in a different financial situation than yourself, but even if I had a million in the bank, I'm going to make time for $400/hour to coach a couple times a week. That's money that's going to go a long way to make for a better life for my family. Maybe you're different than myself. If so, I respect that, but would you pass on potentially making an extra $31,200/year charging $300/hour for 2 1-hour lessons 2 times a week for a year?

I know that's a small percentage of what you make a year, but that's sure a lot better than watching Grey's Anatomy every week and can go to making a better life for your family too.
+1
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-06-2010 , 11:57 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boywonder
But in the pokerclimate of today, deducing wether or not one has the ability to clarify ones thoughts in a clear manner, is much easier by for instance watching an instructors videos and hearing them explain their thought-processes, than to deduce if they are actually in touch with the games and the winning trends of the games today.
This is an excellent point--To reiterate in case it wasn't clear, BW is saying it's easier to effectively analyze a coach's communication skills than his measure of being in touch with the games and winning trends therein. In other words, many instructors are great communicators but they may not be great players .

I have watched so many vids where you really don't know if the instructor is a strong player or not. They can cherry pick sessions where they look flawless, their reads are on, and they win--and on top of it, they are great communicators. If we recall Jason Ho, even someone as proficient in poker as Leatherass couldn't say for sure if this guy were a good player or not--only that his advice deviated so drastically from his own that he had a hard time believing Ho could be a good poker player. In his defense of why he didn't report Ho, he stated that basically Ho had a much different approach but that doesn't mean he's bad at poker. So even at the highest level, evaluating a vid instructor on the basis of poker merit is extremely difficult. I know for a fact there are many well known instructors on various sites who not only have bad to unimpressive PTR ratings, but you can see clearly (once you look for it) that their advice is suspect.

I have asked at least one major training site how they substantiate their instructors, and they didn't write back with any substance, only that they ensure that they have the highest standards for the people they accept. I wonder what standards these are.

Since BW started this thread, I have done a good deal of vid-studying with this thread in mind, and I have to conclude much closer on the side of BW than I was in the beginning. I think understanding the current game and its trends is critical to coaching, as it is part of poker literacy in the here-and-now.

On another aspect of coaching, I wanted to put this out there--I actually think for a lot of small stakes players, a coach who focuses on motivation (to play, to persevere, to resist the inclination to tilt, to work on one's game, etc.) is the one who is nearly most valuable of all. I mean to say, motivation may be the most valuable factor in coaching, even more than being a great player who can communicate concepts to perfection. My biggest problem as a player is motivational--to play a lot and to not tilt, to concentrate for long sessions. I know from other ss'ers that their biggest leak is along the same lines.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-07-2010 , 02:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Megenoita
On another aspect of coaching, I wanted to put this out there--I actually think for a lot of small stakes players, a coach who focuses on motivation (to play, to persevere, to resist the inclination to tilt, to work on one's game, etc.) is the one who is nearly most valuable of all. I mean to say, motivation may be the most valuable factor in coaching, even more than being a great player who can communicate concepts to perfection. My biggest problem as a player is motivational--to play a lot and to not tilt, to concentrate for long sessions. I know from other ss'ers that their biggest leak is along the same lines.
+!

Very well written... I coach small stakes players (up to 1/2 only) and that is my value to them. I should have reiterated that in this thread and in the other. There are different types of coaches which is why win rates don't necessarily mean that much in every case. In the situation illustrated above, the coaches ability to win consistently doesn't have that much importance. There ability to communicate and work w/ the player is of utmost importance.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-08-2010 , 05:26 PM
Boywonder - great post, totally agree. I'd be interested in hiring you as a coach, but I can only play on US sites...so I'd like to get your US screen names to help make sure I'm making an informed decision by hiring you. Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not have the names out there...
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-08-2010 , 06:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Psydoc
Boywonder - great post, totally agree. I'd be interested in hiring you as a coach, but I can only play on US sites...so I'd like to get your US screen names to help make sure I'm making an informed decision by hiring you. Feel free to PM me if you'd rather not have the names out there...
Good point. I kind of agree with this, although at the time when I signed up to make videos / coach I could never foresee this type of situation. The money at stake, relatively speaking of course, would simply not have been worth it for me to out any of my snīs, or even consider giving any of this any thought. However, the recent cooaching scandal has put out some very new demands on training sites / coaches.

What's more, a couple of my students are former students of Jason Hoīs, which connects me somewhat emotionally to the situation.

My own personal thoughts on this at the moment are that I might reveal my snīs to at least one very reputable person of the pokercommunity that shares a responsibility with me. He would in turn verify my "authenticity". Naturally, a person that fits that description would be Aejones considering his position at Leggo. From what I can tell, most of my students would be happy with this solution, as would I, which is what is important to me.

These are the things, pokertraining related, that I am thinking of right now.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-08-2010 , 08:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by boywonder
Good point. I kind of agree with this, although at the time when I signed up to make videos / coach I could never foresee this type of situation. The money at stake, relatively speaking of course, would simply not have been worth it for me to out any of my snīs, or even consider giving any of this any thought. However, the recent cooaching scandal has put out some very new demands on training sites / coaches.

What's more, a couple of my students are former students of Jason Hoīs, which connects me somewhat emotionally to the situation.

My own personal thoughts on this at the moment are that I might reveal my snīs to at least one very reputable person of the pokercommunity that shares a responsibility with me. He would in turn verify my "authenticity". Naturally, a person that fits that description would be Aejones considering his position at Leggo. From what I can tell, most of my students would be happy with this solution, as would I, which is what is important to me.

These are the things, pokertraining related, that I am thinking of right now.

I've been impressed with all your posts boywonder but I think you are off the mark here. You are the one who has started this thread and highlighted the fact that it's easy for coaches to "feed you any type of garbage and you wonīt know wether itīs gold or golddust"...and you ask why would anyone want to take a chance on some of the coaches when there are "real proven strong winners out there". Basically the gist of gist your OP is that the coaching you will receive from many coaches is a waste of money and players should be looking to get coaching from proven winners in today's games - which is a fair point.

But then you come out with this pretty hypocritical post in which it seems that you are saying you should be treated differently, that you shouldn't have to prove to your students that you are what you say you are and that they should take the word of a third party that you are a big winner.

You won't provide your students with your screen names leaving them with no way to verify for themselves your true results. And getting someone who is on the leggopoker team with you to back you up hardly counts. Jason Ho was endorsed by several members of the stoxpoker team and look how that turned out. It wasn't until his screen names were outed that it was proven that he was a big loser at poker.

I don't think it was a great idea to start a thread like this that highlights the lack of transparency in the poker coaching industry if you weren't prepared to put your money where your mouth is and let potential students verify your results for themselves by looking up your screen names.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-09-2010 , 12:22 AM
Thank you for the good points Pokerstorm. Sometimes, people disagree with eachother and thatīs ok.

Obviously anybody that has been in touch with me or followed my posts since mid 2008 would know that coaching was never at the forefront of my mind, as it took me up until the end of 2009 to actually sign on with a training site despite numerous offers for almost 16 months. This, in itself, should add a lot to the context of what we are talking about here.

Outing my snīs is something that I never planned on doing, obviously. Now, I feel that option is no longer one that I personally am comfortable with, as much as I would like it to be. I could very easily ignore this entire situation and still have plenty of students and carry on as I did yesterday, but in my life I want to develop the habit of being fully comfortable and at peace with all of my positions even if they may lead to uncomfortable actions. I can assure you that there are no monetary benefits for me to do this either (we donīt need to get into the details, but trust me, not everybody does everything only in respect to their bottom line as may be popular opinion), it is solely a personal choice of mine done for the benefit of my students.

After having reflected on the situation, I am very comfortable, of course from a moral standpoint but as well from a standpoint of fairness, with my position in outing my screename to one person such as Aejones who would in turn be able to verify the accuracy of my results. That person would stand very little to gain by doing this, so whoever decides to do this, deserves a lot of credit.

I believe that the solution I present does to a large extent verify many of the things that I think deserve to be verified from a potential students point of view, and that it is a fair compromise between my original position of not wanting to out my screenname whatsoever at any cost and publicly proclaiming it.

My reasoning for being comfortable with it is that it is a solution that I myself would accept were the tables turned, which of course you and many others may disagree with, and in which case you would seek coaching elsewhere.

Beyond this I think any other points I try to make may be futile, as I feel that we might have reached a point where we may have to respectfully agree to disagree. To those that do disagree but are simultaneously looking for coaching within this market, to reiterate my original post, I hope that they do this with some caution and due diligence, and that they get what they are paying for.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-09-2010 , 02:39 AM
As per your direction, I did not read (been a long day...), but based on the title, I will say that, IMO, coaching can absolutely be a waste of money. Basically, if one chooses to seek it without being thorough in evaluating whether or not they actually truly should invest in it. For some people, it's the chance of a lifetime. For others, it can only be a waste of money. I feel like I've seen many examples of a "middle" as well, where someone has gained benefit but perhaps not up to their potential or expectation given the specific time and money expenditure, overall goals, the actual games and rates in question, etc etc.... Just how I've observed and experienced things over time.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-13-2010 , 11:02 AM
BW there's lots of people who like your vids on leggopoker so don't let the negative comments here get you down you know? I'm glad someone reputable started this thread since it's been something I've been thinking about a lot lately. I should mention that I just play low stakes.

First off I don't think that having some coaches who are out of touch with today's game is such a bad thing. Prospective students usually can read their articles, watch their videos, and get feedback from other students. Competition in the market is good and I feel like most coaches have something to offer. I've had at least 7 different paying coaches and countless sweat sessions and free coaching from better players at higher limits. I don't feel that the coaching helped me at all. I should also note that I'm one stubborn sob who likes to learn things for himself. For example, I remember getting coaching for sngs from amt a long time ago, maybe even preuigea, and I just wasn't read to truly grasp what he was telling me. I also got coaching from fees when he was still playing the 50nl 200bb tables on ap. The sick thing is the advice of every single one of my paid coaches was good advice. I just had other f'ed up thinking about the game in my head I needed to work out for myself. I didn't figure this out until about a few weeks ago and it's probably been a good two years since my last coach. I won't post what got me over the hump here since it'll end up being super long, but if anyone wants to know they can pm me.

Quote:
a good coach transcends recent trends
I agree and disagree with this. I think there's lots of stuff you can learn from the math oriented guys who are good teachers but maybe marginal winners in today's games.

Quote:
1. It's so MUCH more important that you get a great teacher instead of a great winning player. If he can't teach he could be the best player in the world and he would make a very small difference in his students games. [The people who learn is the same people who would have picked it by reading a post in the strategy forum]
I agree with this too. I took jiu jitsu and felt like I hit a well for about a 3 month period. Then one day the main instructor who was by far the most skilled in the gym and best teacher for most people was gone and another guy who was one belt level lower took his place. I learned more in those 3 hours than I learned in the previous 3 months.

Quote:
This is, in my experience, often true. Many students hear but don't listen, for whatever reason. I have literally tried

everything I can think of to break this. Some people don't get over this.
I've been sweating some people playing 5nl and I think I'm giving them super solid advice but I can tell that they're just not getting it and/or they don't care. I think a lot of people just want to know the right plays and not the theory and now to apply it because that's harder to learn. I think it's the same reason why good coaches should continue to charge what seems like a lot per hour. There's a lot of people whining about the price of training sites. There are other people who will gladly pay for them. If I were a coach I wouldn't put too much stock into the negative criticism in the thread but I'm sure everyone already knows that. All that matters is what the paying students think. I would also guess that most the people pressuring bw to release his real sn's aren't prospective students anyways.

Last edited by guitarizt; 02-13-2010 at 11:19 AM.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 05:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarizt
I think there's lots of stuff you can learn from the math oriented guys who are good teachers but maybe marginal winners in today's games.
Most EQ calculations are fundamentally flawed because they do not account for the rake or table conditions. (i.e., you have 51% equity to win 95% of the pot, Does that make you the favorite?)

Worse, none of us will live long enough to make the Sklansky bucks even out with the Bernanke bucks. I say this as someone who whips out Pokerstove daily.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 07:17 AM
fwiw i don't agree that a good coaches hourly rate has to equal the coaches playing hourly.

a good coach should spend more time on their students then just the hour+ they spend discussing strategy going over hh's, sweating, teaching how to think about poker and concepts. fwiw i thought noahsd made a really good point iirc. the actual hands that take place over say a sweat are pretty much meaningless because it's such a small % of spots. the objective should be "knowing why you are doing something".

they should also be a mentor. be someone to look up to, teach discipline and be an example of professionalism. be someone to talk to (with an understanding of how to balance the friend/coach ratio so the "full" coaching experience can be effective). the confidence and mindset the support can bring to the student can be priceless. being a successful poker player isn't just about playing your cards right. it's more complex than that. i think there is a mindset and certainly discipline to be really good.

coaching isn't just cut and dry. i would think a good coach tailors his program and lesson plans to the particular student's situation as not everyone has the same goals, or expectations from poker.

also, no matter how great a coach is there are students and people who want to learn how to play poker who will not be winning poker players. not everyone can process the information and have the intuition. this can be do to effort, tilt, dicipline, something the student has no control over, etc etc Just like in sports, not everyone is capable of being athletic no matter how much training they get and regardless the coach.

having been a student, having coaching/training through sports a big part of my life, some life experiences and being a little older, if i was a coach or even seriously looking for a coach this is how i would approach it or want. this would be difficult if trying to coach many students, but having a few students who are serious about the game would be great. if someone is putting this much dedication to their student it can be worth more than their playing hourly.

there are definitely ****ty coaches out there, but there are also good coaches who give validity to poker coaching. there is certainly much to learn and always someone better with more experience who can give insight and direction.

anyway im not a "coach" and this is just my opinion on a good coach.

Last edited by rocketragz; 02-14-2010 at 07:22 AM.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 09:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketragz
fwiw i don't agree that a good coaches hourly rate has to equal the coaches playing hourly.

a good coach should spend more time on their students then just the hour+ they spend discussing strategy going over hh's, sweating, teaching how to think about poker and concepts. fwiw i thought noahsd made a really good point iirc. the actual hands that take place over say a sweat are pretty much meaningless because it's such a small % of spots. the objective should be "knowing why you are doing something".

they should also be a mentor. be someone to look up to, teach discipline and be an example of professionalism. be someone to talk to (with an understanding of how to balance the friend/coach ratio so the "full" coaching experience can be effective). the confidence and mindset the support can bring to the student can be priceless. being a successful poker player isn't just about playing your cards right. it's more complex than that. i think there is a mindset and certainly discipline to be really good.

coaching isn't just cut and dry. i would think a good coach tailors his program and lesson plans to the particular student's situation as not everyone has the same goals, or expectations from poker.

also, no matter how great a coach is there are students and people who want to learn how to play poker who will not be winning poker players. not everyone can process the information and have the intuition. this can be do to effort, tilt, dicipline, something the student has no control over, etc etc Just like in sports, not everyone is capable of being athletic no matter how much training they get and regardless the coach.

having been a student, having coaching/training through sports a big part of my life, some life experiences and being a little older, if i was a coach or even seriously looking for a coach this is how i would approach it or want. this would be difficult if trying to coach many students, but having a few students who are serious about the game would be great. if someone is putting this much dedication to their student it can be worth more than their playing hourly.

there are definitely ****ty coaches out there, but there are also good coaches who give validity to poker coaching. there is certainly much to learn and always someone better with more experience who can give insight and direction.

anyway im not a "coach" and this is just my opinion on a good coach.
***** awesome post! All coaches should read this post.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 09:49 AM
Am I the only one that charging $475/hour coaching poker is absolutely ridiculous? Anyone willing to pay that much money is crazy imo.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 09:56 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabbershot
Most EQ calculations are fundamentally flawed because they do not account for the rake or table conditions. (i.e., you have 51% equity to win 95% of the pot, Does that make you the favorite?)

Worse, none of us will live long enough to make the Sklansky bucks even out with the Bernanke bucks. I say this as someone who whips out Pokerstove daily.
LOL
Of course it does
Its not like the rake is paid only by you, you are still 51% (and therefore the favourite) to win the pot.

And what does Bernanke have to do with ****?
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 02:42 PM
soooo this is what happens when bumhunters are delusional and have an ego?
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 05:38 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by fees
soooo this is what happens when bumhunters are delusional and have an ego?
Bunhunting is just another word for table selection.
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote
02-14-2010 , 06:04 PM
rape is just another word for rough sex
Is coaching a waste of money? Oh, and too long, don't read. Quote

      
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