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coaching is a scam coaching is a scam

02-28-2010 , 07:32 AM
wp OP, epic level, expensive coach
coaching is a scam Quote
02-28-2010 , 09:43 AM
Clarkatroid can you coach me?
coaching is a scam Quote
03-04-2010 , 06:36 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moshiach
What game is that ? I haven't calculated std dev manually and I've heard old poker tracker calculated them wrong. Are you sure you didn't insert std dev for 1000 of hands and wr for 100 of hands ?
There is "std dev" in HM but I am not sure it's for 1000 hands or 100 hands.
Can someone help ?
coaching is a scam Quote
03-10-2010 , 05:03 AM
Having those graphs make it more convincing
coaching is a scam Quote
03-11-2010 , 11:27 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cherufe
for 100k hands is 95.42%, witch is still good....
can someone tell me what's the formula for calculating this 95.42%? Thanks a lot.
coaching is a scam Quote
03-11-2010 , 11:47 AM
true
coaching is a scam Quote
03-16-2010 , 07:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerMes
op is not very eloquent but i agree that there are a lot of people trying to strike it rich in a gold rush by selling shovels and many of those people aren't exactly bona fide.

it funny that the coaching/video cottage industry virtually did not exist 5 years ago. yet today, so many claim you have to have a coach and use a video coaching site to make it. very few coaches/authors ever had coaches themselves. of all the professionals i know, there is maybe one or two that had a mentor of some kind but i don't know of a single story of one having a coach. but i don't know many online pros who started post party poker so that may be why.
Spot on...+1
coaching is a scam Quote
03-16-2010 , 10:17 AM
people want shortcuts to analyzing there game, plain and simple. Coaches are certainly helpful but if you want to be really good at poker you can't just want to PLAY poker, you have to be motivated to review your play (lower limits) and the play of others (higher limits).
coaching is a scam Quote
03-18-2010 , 07:16 AM
I don't think that coaching is a scam, but I don't get how anyone can ask for $500/h or more. They don't make that by playing, and even if they do, you can't compare those two.

You don't risk your bankroll by coaching, and you don't get mentally drained by the downswings. So something like half their winrate is reasonable. Just my two cents.
coaching is a scam Quote
03-18-2010 , 08:39 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redgrape
God liberals are so ****ing stupid. If coaching isnt worth getting dont ****ing get it. Dont make stupid ****ing generalizations either.
This reminds me of a neo-nazi guy I knew who would randomly make absurd statements blaming Jews for totally random stuff and you'd go "whaaaaaaat where'd you make that connection"

And you wonder why we're taking all your guns away
coaching is a scam Quote
03-18-2010 , 08:48 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathleenwins
I don't think that coaching is a scam, but I don't get how anyone can ask for $500/h or more. They don't make that by playing, and even if they do, you can't compare those two.

You don't risk your bankroll by coaching, and you don't get mentally drained by the downswings. So something like half their winrate is reasonable. Just my two cents.
There is literally zero benefit to a poker player not having to risk his bankroll, so you can take that off the table

And in determining the hourly rate, you have to compensate for time invested into finding paying students

And you also have to consider the fact that as more people acquire any given piece of information, the value of that information declines, so in coaching we're basically undermining our own ability to win

All of those things taken into consideration, I would have to insist on an hourly at least 400% my winrate before I'd even consider coaching (which would be an absurdly high number which is why I don't coach)
coaching is a scam Quote
03-18-2010 , 08:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by *******
There is literally zero benefit to a poker player not having to risk his bankroll, so you can take that off the table

And in determining the hourly rate, you have to compensate for time invested into finding paying students

And you also have to consider the fact that as more people acquire any given piece of information, the value of that information declines, so in coaching we're basically undermining our own ability to win

All of those things taken into consideration, I would have to insist on an hourly at least 400% my winrate before I'd even consider coaching (which would be an absurdly high number which is why I don't coach)
Would you charge this number because of the negative influence coaching can have for you on the long run ? (more better players) or just to scare of people ?
coaching is a scam Quote
03-19-2010 , 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalbam8
Anyone considered that maybe those coaching have figured that it's easier than actually playing poker?
your a genius sir, didn't Stoxpoker say they were re-reimbursing up to the 1sr $100,000 for the Jason Ho scam and that just covered up to the 1st 2 lessons? so the $ to be made from coaching must be very large,
so really how dumb is he and whats the difference between what he did and other coaches are doing aside from all the other shady stuff but just on coaching skills a lone what justifies you to be a coach? thats why in a way we do need tracking to see who win and who loses
coaching is a scam Quote
03-19-2010 , 01:18 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Redgrape
Clarkatoid,

I don't understand why you think you understand why I posted in this thread. I actually happen to agree with you, that most coaches are not worth the time. I am likely one of those people, however, I barely coach anyways.

However, you are an idiot. No one is getting seduced into coaching. You get a coach because you feel it is good value for your money. If you don't do the appropriate research, and later realize it wasn't worth your money, your a huge sucker. To say that coaching is a scam is ridiculous.

I remember the first coaching I ever got was from fslexduck and it was totally not worth the money whatsoever. It wasn't a scam, I was just stupid. If someone has a one karat diamond ring for sale for one million dollars, and tells you "I think this diamond ring is worth it," and then a friend of his says "This is a great deal, I'm telling you" and you buy it, you weren't scammed, your just ******ed. A great man once said "No one. Now listen to me, no one is responsible for giving any difficulty or any pleasure to anyone. Problems or successes, they all are the results of our own actions." I think these are pretty intelligent words.

From the tone of the initial post it seems like you were half joking or using absurd verbiage to get a rise out of posters. Nonetheless, I felt compelled to respond.
what a selfish, lonely, and depressing view to take. if everyone was promoting a diamond ring and everyone said it was worth worth a billion dollars you'd be a genius not to buy it for a billion. and similarlarly many people promote coaching and coaches and OP is a voice against it. yet you want the OP to go away so everyone will fall back on their own abilities and hope everyone is a genius? or maybe we can just share information and help each other out like OP is doing.

either way by commanding OP to stop, or by going out of your way to tell him how stupid his action is, you are doing the very thing you are complaining against. after all, no one is forcing you or anyone else to read OP's post. it is so sickening to read your post redgrape and to attempt to understand all of the nastiness lurking beneath it.
coaching is a scam Quote
03-23-2010 , 01:00 AM
So I have a coach right now. Actually, I have two of them. I don't pay them an hourly rate. Instead, we have a staking deal. One of my professional online poker playing friends put in a good word with the coaches for me, backing me up as a good live player who can learn quickly and become a winning player online with some hard work and coaching. I'd also played online for 4 years here and there, mostly No Limit Hold'em, full ring and some six max. I had some success but would eventually tilt it all away. The coaches that my buddy found for me didn't coach this particular game though, they coached a different game.

I wasn't even hesitant to start with these coaches as they didn't make me put up any money of my own. Rather they both lent me a SIZEABLE chunk of change just on pure trust that my other buddy vouches for me. So they teach me poker, day and night. Usually one is online more at night, and one is on during the day. I can contact them anytime they are online for help with anything. They can sweat me or I can sweat them pretty much whenever in addition to that.

Monetarily, when I reach a certain goal we split the profit 50/50. If I lose I'm not out anything, but they've never had someone get broke. At the end of the agreement we can terminate the coaching or I can get a much bigger piece of myself in the staking deal, negotiable later on. Also, I can decide to just take lessons in the same vein for $100/hour (a very good offer I'm thinking when I need a tune-up here and there.)

It hasn't been very long, and I've had some setbacks, but I'm definitely becoming a bigger winner that I've ever been online with their approach to poker. I won't call it a system because honestly both coaches have slightly different ideas and different takes on how to apply their ideas at the tables. I actually get two different viewpoints a lot of times. The other reason I won't call it a system is because they actually take the time to find out exactly where I'm having trouble individually, as they do with all of their student/horses. It's in their best interest as I am making them money, and the sooner the better. They find out where I'm thinking about the game incorrectly and correct that, in addition to fixing the many standard lines and offering suggestions about how to play certain player types in those given situations. They offer mental support, as opposed to just spewing information like it seems many of you are under the impression ALL coaches do.

If this sounds like a dream situation it's probably because it is. I am paying quite a hefty sum for all of this information but by the time I pay it off I'll be making a good deal of money on the monthly. It's basically a guarantee that I get good enough to make this kind of money. I don't have any risk upfront. I just want to defend my coaches and say that not all coaches are money-grubbing lazy bums who can't/won't play. I think my coaches are more than fair, being available so often and helping me out so much.
coaching is a scam Quote
03-23-2010 , 09:14 PM
at the moment im thinking about getting coached, because im not good enough to find my leaks myself.
so wat shell i do to imrove myself. how can i make myself a better player?
by the way who do u think is a good teaching coach for sng turbos.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-22-2010 , 01:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eclipse86
A coaching poker player might be able to make $500/hr playing poker, but might not be competent enough to give out $500 worth of intellectual information/hr to potential clients as a coach. Hence the discrepancy.

Its like, I might be a hooker and make $1000/hr hooking. But can I really charge $1000/hr to other poorer hookers as a hooker coach?

You cannot put a price on a fantastic BJ.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-22-2010 , 03:34 AM
Quote:
I'm offering a huge coaching package to micro and small stake HUSNG players. I don't think you will find better value for money than the overall package that I've put together for the small stakes guys to be able to get some coaching.

There are a whole selection of options available to you and I'll run through everything in this post. If there is anything you feel that I don't cover then feel free to ask me.

I play a very small ball style of poker that adapts hugely to the opponent that I find myself infront of. I mainly play and coach reg speed HUSNG's. I find this style helps many attain quite a high average ROI and is very easy to learn.




Coaching offered & Some people that I've helped already:



I'm offering coaching for low stakes HUSNG's anywhere from the $2 - $30 Games with a money back guarantee (for block coaching).

I've coached lots of players and at the end of last year I decided to coach a couple of 2+2 members for free, just to get some references in and show that I can comunicate my lessons in a manor that is not only easy to understand and digest but also translates into results!

The 2+2 members that I was coaching for honest referances and results were Borg7 and 200%.



A little more about Me:

I've played poker for about four years. I mainly played as a prop player on a small euro site and played a mix of 6 max cash games and HUSNG's. The particular site that I played on did not allow Prop's to play HU Cash games which is how I got into HUSNG's in the first place.

I was helped a lot with my game when I was a student of Cogdissonance, I had pretty consistent results before enlisting his help but he ironed out some of my leaks where I played a bit weak in spots.

The small euro site that I was playing on was not poker tracker compatible so I don't have most of my results.

However I have been doing a bankroll challenge on Full Tilt where I run $50 - $5000 starting from the $2 HUSNG's in less than 1000 games. I haven't finished that challenge yet but some of those results are below and I've made a few videos along the way that have really helped past students.




As I don't have a mountain of results to show, I am going to offer very cheap rates for the first ten or so students to build some references. All I ask in return is that you come back to this thread and give an honest opinion of your time with me. The small amount of games that I have on Full Tilt along with all of the students that I have coached should total up a decent sample but in any case I'm still offering this discount as well as a money back guarantee.

As of today, 100% of my students are winning in their respective games, a result that I'm really happy with and I hope some of them will post their results too. Most of my students discuss the strategy that I teach them amongst each other in a private forum and most of them are now friends on Skype and regularly sweat each others play.

Free Videos For My Students

I'll also be regularly making videos of my play which my students get access to, free of charge. There are over 30 videos right now and more constantly being added.



What my students get from me:



1) Access to over 30 videos of either me playing at various stakes or coaching past/ present students in leakfinder videos. A student who only has an hours coaching with me will also get access to these videos and any future private videos that I make for HUSNG's.


2) I charge $45/ hour for leakfinder video reviews. Here we'll go over your play, talk about the opponent type that you're up against and run through optimal lines to exploit his/ her style of play and chat about any spots that you have trouble with. Following the game review, you'll get a video sent to you of our session.


3) I offer a small stakes, heads up, block package that consists of four hours worth of training for a one off fee of $150 (this can also be paid in three installments if you let me know upfront that you want to comit to it). Everyone who has done 4 hours of training with me has become a winner in the small stakes games.

The 4 hour block consists of the same learning plan that I conducted with Borg7 and 200% for free, just to make sure I ironed out any creases. Nothing needed changing and Borg7 as well as 200% are beating the low stake games since completing the course.


4) My students will get access to me via a private forum where I am on hand everyday to answer any questions about trouble spots you may be finding yourself in as well as Skype.


5) Finally, for anyone that books the 4 hour block coaching. If your win rate doesn't dramatically change after 300 games of completing the coaching and you are unhappy/ feel that the coaching really wasn't worth it then I'll give 100% money back gaurentee!

My prices will only be this low for a limited time whilst I build up more references, so if you want to improve you micro/ small stakes HUSNG game, book now.


If you have any further questions then feel free to PM me or email me: brokerstar@tagpoker.co.uk

This should answer some questions about how lame a lot of these coaches are. I cannot

believe 2+2 would even alow this guy to coach

Last edited by ChicagoRy; 04-22-2010 at 11:24 PM. Reason: fixed misquote
coaching is a scam Quote
04-22-2010 , 05:23 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Atriedes
I'm offering a huge coaching package to micro and small stake HUSNG players. I don't think you will find better value for money than the overall package that I've put together for the small stakes guys to be able to get some coaching.

There are a whole selection of options available to you and I'll run through everything in this post. If there is anything you feel that I don't cover then feel free to ask me.

I play a very small ball style of poker that adapts hugely to the opponent that I find myself infront of. I mainly play and coach reg speed HUSNG's. I find this style helps many attain quite a high average ROI and is very easy to learn.




Coaching offered & Some people that I've helped already:



I'm offering coaching for low stakes HUSNG's anywhere from the $2 - $30 Games with a money back guarantee (for block coaching).

I've coached lots of players and at the end of last year I decided to coach a couple of 2+2 members for free, just to get some references in and show that I can comunicate my lessons in a manor that is not only easy to understand and digest but also translates into results!

The 2+2 members that I was coaching for honest referances and results were Borg7 and 200%.



A little more about Me:

I've played poker for about four years. I mainly played as a prop player on a small euro site and played a mix of 6 max cash games and HUSNG's. The particular site that I played on did not allow Prop's to play HU Cash games which is how I got into HUSNG's in the first place.

I was helped a lot with my game when I was a student of Cogdissonance, I had pretty consistent results before enlisting his help but he ironed out some of my leaks where I played a bit weak in spots.

The small euro site that I was playing on was not poker tracker compatible so I don't have most of my results.

However I have been doing a bankroll challenge on Full Tilt where I run $50 - $5000 starting from the $2 HUSNG's in less than 1000 games. I haven't finished that challenge yet but some of those results are below and I've made a few videos along the way that have really helped past students.




As I don't have a mountain of results to show, I am going to offer very cheap rates for the first ten or so students to build some references. All I ask in return is that you come back to this thread and give an honest opinion of your time with me. The small amount of games that I have on Full Tilt along with all of the students that I have coached should total up a decent sample but in any case I'm still offering this discount as well as a money back guarantee.

As of today, 100% of my students are winning in their respective games, a result that I'm really happy with and I hope some of them will post their results too. Most of my students discuss the strategy that I teach them amongst each other in a private forum and most of them are now friends on Skype and regularly sweat each others play.

Free Videos For My Students

I'll also be regularly making videos of my play which my students get access to, free of charge. There are over 30 videos right now and more constantly being added.



What my students get from me:



1) Access to over 30 videos of either me playing at various stakes or coaching past/ present students in leakfinder videos. A student who only has an hours coaching with me will also get access to these videos and any future private videos that I make for HUSNG's.


2) I charge $45/ hour for leakfinder video reviews. Here we'll go over your play, talk about the opponent type that you're up against and run through optimal lines to exploit his/ her style of play and chat about any spots that you have trouble with. Following the game review, you'll get a video sent to you of our session.


3) I offer a small stakes, heads up, block package that consists of four hours worth of training for a one off fee of $150 (this can also be paid in three installments if you let me know upfront that you want to comit to it). Everyone who has done 4 hours of training with me has become a winner in the small stakes games.

The 4 hour block consists of the same learning plan that I conducted with Borg7 and 200% for free, just to make sure I ironed out any creases. Nothing needed changing and Borg7 as well as 200% are beating the low stake games since completing the course.


4) My students will get access to me via a private forum where I am on hand everyday to answer any questions about trouble spots you may be finding yourself in as well as Skype.


5) Finally, for anyone that books the 4 hour block coaching. If your win rate doesn't dramatically change after 300 games of completing the coaching and you are unhappy/ feel that the coaching really wasn't worth it then I'll give 100% money back gaurentee!

My prices will only be this low for a limited time whilst I build up more references, so if you want to improve you micro/ small stakes HUSNG game, book now.


If you have any further questions then feel free to PM me or email me: [email]brokerstar@tagpoker.co.uk[/email


This should answer some questions about how lame a lot of these coaches are. I cannot

believe 2+2 would even alow this guy to coach


2+ 2 does not allow anything, coaches in the coaching forum pay to advertise their services and i don't get your point.

Because he's not a mid-high stakes player he's not qualified to coach? Thats like saying someone who has never golfed before and wants golfing lessons might as well skip everyone and only hire Tiger Woods. Maybe that analogy is extreme but you should get my point. He can easily coach the player's hes targeting. It makes no sense for a Micro player to shell out $250/hour for coaching.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-22-2010 , 11:28 PM
That guy is a competitor of mine technically and I don't think he's doing anything wrong.

I would call out anybody that was disgracing heads up sng coaching and so would many, many others on 2p2. It's too small of a community and there's too much talk amongst students and coaches and regulars about visible people.

Plus he offers a money back guarantee, has a lot of recommendations. I don't know enough about him to say he's an incredible coach, but from what I have seen he looks to be a fair value for the price that he charges.

Again, he's a competitor of mine.

If you have any other information to add that backs up your assertion that this guy is not a legitimate micro husng coach, I would be interested in hearing it.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-23-2010 , 07:39 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duke Atriedes
This should answer some questions about how lame a lot of these coaches are. I cannot

believe 2+2 would even alow this guy to coach
Well I have about 100 students that are all happy with the coaching that they have gotten so far and again if anyone really is displeased with what I'm teaching I'll happily give them their money back.

I started coaching for free to see if I had what it takes to help people and the results were good. I then took people on as students on a profit share only basis for a while and again the results were good so finally I started charging the cheapest hourly out there to help micro guys get started without breaking the bank.

I play mainly as a prop player on some smaller euro sites and as such there are rules to what I can say about that.

So my point is that I started a free training site so that future students could check me out before commiting to anything, again, if I look ****, don't hire me, there really is no scam?

Think about it, you get to watch over 30 videos of me playing, for free! (a free scam lol) See what you think and even after that you get a moneyback gaurentee if I'm *****. If you decide you like what I'm saying in the vids and think I can help then and only then hire me.

I've tried to go above and beyond most people in terms of letting future students make an informed descision.

If I know how to beat $10 games and can show someone how easy it is (and it really is easy, seriously I could teach a nutless monkey to beat those games, honestly a nutless monkey!) and they understand what I'm saying and replicate that, what's the issue?

As it happens, some of my $2 game students now play up to the $50's $80's and $100's in a few short months following their training.

Sorry if this offends you in anyway, I'm sorry if this seems like a terrible scam and I'm just out to rob people but I assure you, I can help most mirco guys develop a strong mind and skill set for beating the games and building a roll.

Love and hugs

Brokerstar

Last edited by Brokerstar; 04-23-2010 at 07:51 PM.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-24-2010 , 01:14 AM
Like any profession, there is a wide amount of variance in the capabilities and the instructional skill of a coach or teacher. I am a flight instructor by trade. In order to be able to teach my students the fundamentals of flying, I need to have a solid grasp of the core concepts myself and be able to relay that to my students. I don't have to be Chuck Yeager or Bob Hoover to be able to teach my students how to takeoff and land.

The same can be said about poker coaching. The only thing micro players need to learn is the solid fundamentals of the game. The coach doesn't necessarily have to be able to beat the nosebleeds at a sick winrate to be able to help others improve their game.

If a student likes the instruction they are receiving, both parties benefit.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-26-2010 , 04:07 PM
Players also have different methods of learning. Some people learn better by watching others plays and give advice (can use instructional vids), others want to critiqued mid-play (coaching), and others would benefit most from a post analysis of their play from their stats and hands.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-26-2010 , 08:28 PM
I think for a beginner into poker it's essentially to watch poker movies because it's the fastest way to learn the game. Those who say that a coach is a scammer, i think they are frustrated people.
coaching is a scam Quote
04-29-2010 , 12:24 PM
Not 100% correct... I am actually looking into starting a free group coaching session... I get nothing from it other than just helping people... I would agree with you to a certain extent with some people as I have seen some poker "pros" go from the grind to only coaching people how to play in exchange for money + a % of the over a certain period of time but this isn't accurate for everyone who wants to coach.


-Arson
coaching is a scam Quote

      
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