Open Side Menu Go to the Top
Register
Any legit reason??? Any legit reason???

06-13-2021 , 07:42 PM
I've been looking for a poker coach and received PMs from a few and I'm very wary of the approach that they all seem to take and as wondering if there is any legit reason why they would do this.


No graphs/stats/screen names
Would you hire a builder just because someone claims to be one and can build your extension? Or someone to give you a facelift because they said they're a plastic surgeon? And would you dish up money upfront?

I didn't think so but the coaches who've contacted me refuse to offer evidence of their ability. If I'm lucky enough to get a graph, the screen name is blanked out, so there's no way to know if it's theirs, and no option to rail them.


The Timeshare Approach
As per above, requests for rates and results are ignored in favour of a Skype chat invite. As someone from a sales background, I appreciate that you vastly increase your chances of securing customers when you have them sat in front of you (hence salesmen pushing you to come in or they visit you) but it's time consuming to arrange & complete a meeting and more than that, it just seems a bit shady when info is purposefully held back.


No results/hidden results

If a coach has (finally) revealed their username in a Skype chat and I then go to sharkscope, their names are either opted out (why, if you're such a winning player? Surely you'd want to be seen?) or their names cannot be found at all.

One coach posted amazing sharkscope results for him and his students but they were in reference to the 'player group' network but I searched all networks but could not find him or this network - and searching for his students only found profiles for popular sites (and they were all losing players).

Thoughts?

Last edited by MissVix; 06-13-2021 at 08:00 PM.
06-13-2021 , 11:20 PM
Just avoid them. There are definitely coaches that exist with winning results freely available.
06-14-2021 , 04:21 AM
Hi, we spoke on Skype and you didn't at any time ask to see my results, despite my asking several times if you had any other questions. If you had asked to see specific results I would have gladly provided these as I have to many other enquiring students.

You also mentioned that you wanted to take a pack of hours, but then never got back to me.

I'm happy to show you my results, if you simply reply to me privately and actually request this

I attempted to follow up with you on Skype after spending about 1 hour (I usually run these for 20-30 minutes) freely talking over your game, my background and approach to coaching etc. and you didn't even read my messages. You also spent a lot of the time we had to speak complaining fruitlessly about bad beats which is a total waste of energy. I also mentioned in our chat that I routinely offer rail sessions as an optional extra alongside traditional coaching...

The time spent by a coach giving a free consult is quite costly vs. their usual hourly in coaching. Personally I offer this as a good way to set the tone with my students which is to give more of my time freely and to be friendly in how I do my work.

Most regs these days block their results on Sharkscope, this is common practice. If a coach won't show you their results when requested, that's a concern.

Last edited by SonOfBadger; 06-14-2021 at 04:28 AM.
06-14-2021 , 07:22 PM
Really??

I didn't name you or any of the coaches I'd been talking - that would be poor form - yet you think it's appropriate to publicly call me out? And disclose details of our conversation? How do you think this looks to prospective students?

My OP must have hit a nerve for you to have reacted this way and assumed I was talking about you.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SonOfBadger Any legit reason???
Hi, we spoke on Skype and you didn't at any time ask to see my results
That's because I'd already asked in multiple PMs and was ignored. Understandably, I assumed asking again would gain nothing but awkwardness. Besides, I shouldn't have to ask - it should be a standard part of a sales pitch for verification and enticement.


Quote:
You also mentioned that you wanted to take a pack of hours, but then never got back to me.
I told you I had to wait til payday, try and find money to pay for a batch of lessons, and would get back to you when I'm ready. I was also talking to other coaches and trying to find extra info on you all. And yeah, I began to doubt if paying a lot of money to the first person I'd spoken to, who'd shut down access to their results was a wise move.

Ultimately, there was no obligation for me to get back to you.


Quote:
I'm happy to show you my results, if you simply reply to me privately and actually request this
So the first few times I asked weren't enough?

It's okay for you to call me out in public for no reason (you weren't named or implied) yet I must reply to you privately?
Its okay for you to divulge details about me but you'll only divulge details about yourself in private?


Quote:
I attempted to follow up with you on Skype....and you didn't even read my messages.
That's because I hadn't been back on Skype since we spoke. I was going to reply tonight but then I saw your post.


Quote:
You also spent a lot of the time we had to speak complaining fruitlessly about bad beats which is a total waste of energy.
I mentioned bad beats when you asked why I'm not a profitable player (one reason was I always bust final tables early - with 7 of my last 10 FT exits down to bad beats) and when discussing variance I mentioned some insane beats and jokingly said it makes me wonder if online poker is rigged.


Quote:
The time spent by a coach giving a free consult is quite costly vs. their usual hourly in coaching. Personally I offer this as a good way to set the tone with my students which is to give more of my time freely and to be friendly in how I do my work.
Yet it was you who wanted an hour-long Skype session - I just wanted you to reply to my PM requests for info so I could do some checks before getting back to you if I wanted to take things further. You can't play the martyr here.


Quote:
Most regs these days block their results on Sharkscope, this is common practice.
It may be common but I see no reason why - hence my OP. Why hide? Good results are the best form of marketing.


Quote:
If a coach won't show you their results when requested, that's a concern.
And on that note I refer you back to my PM requests that were ignored.

Last edited by MissVix; 06-14-2021 at 07:50 PM.
06-14-2021 , 08:02 PM
hello again, and my apologies - after reading your reply here I have just looked back over our PM history and note that as you say you did indeed ask about graphs and I did not recall this. If I make a mistake I am happy to acknowledge it.

if I recall correctly we did talk over some of my recent scores but not my overall graph. again, happy to do so if you drop me a message.

I didn't mean to cause offence with my reply here either, or to disclose anything personal, but perhaps I misjudged that. apologies for that if so. I certainly don't like to upset anyone. I suppose I was a bit bemused by the combination of not hearing back from you about coaching and then reading this general complaint about coaches who offer consultations

anyway, live and learn. wishing you the best of luck on the grind, and feel free to drop me a message if you wld like to discuss coaching matters further.
08-08-2021 , 10:16 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissVix Any legit reason???
I've been looking for a poker coach and received PMs from a few and I'm very wary of the approach that they all seem to take and as wondering if there is any legit reason why they would do this.


No graphs/stats/screen names
Would you hire a builder just because someone claims to be one and can build your extension? Or someone to give you a facelift because they said they're a plastic surgeon? And would you dish up money upfront?

I didn't think so but the coaches who've contacted me refuse to offer evidence of their ability. If I'm lucky enough to get a graph, the screen name is blanked out, so there's no way to know if it's theirs, and no option to rail them.


The Timeshare Approach
As per above, requests for rates and results are ignored in favour of a Skype chat invite. As someone from a sales background, I appreciate that you vastly increase your chances of securing customers when you have them sat in front of you (hence salesmen pushing you to come in or they visit you) but it's time consuming to arrange & complete a meeting and more than that, it just seems a bit shady when info is purposefully held back.


No results/hidden results

If a coach has (finally) revealed their username in a Skype chat and I then go to sharkscope, their names are either opted out (why, if you're such a winning player? Surely you'd want to be seen?) or their names cannot be found at all.

One coach posted amazing sharkscope results for him and his students but they were in reference to the 'player group' network but I searched all networks but could not find him or this network - and searching for his students only found profiles for popular sites (and they were all losing players).

Thoughts?
I would simply ask a coach: "hey, could you explain in less than 5 minutes why I should hire you specifically and not someone else?" And I would expect, in the very least, the following:
  • show graphs with good winrates
  • disclose poker room nicknames
  • mention 2+2 members who can vouch
Any coach, even the one who is just starting his coaching career should be able to give you a list of 2+2 members who would vouch for him and confirm his deep understanding of poker theory and ability to help and explain poker concepts.

      
m