+1

I would have to agree with MCA on this point. Sure I can identify the bots and play them even but that sucks, especially since the bots are beating up on the unsuspecting recs. If you look at the biggest winners up to 50nl on WPN one could have an extremely good argument that the majority of the top 20-30 winners are bots. It's so obvious to me anyway. Even so that I've stopped playing micro-stakes cash games on WPN almost completely unless I would bring in my other bankroll that is large enough to play mid-stakes. I have chosen not to do that on WPN. That really sucks for the poker ecosystem because that reduces the number of micro-stakes players grinding long enough to improve and move up into mid-stakes and higher. (on WPN anyway)

I'm from the USA and used to play almost exclusively on ACR. It has been expressed previously by others in this thread that ACR is the only good option for Americans. I don't believe this to be true at all and in fact if you play midstakes and lower, ACR is 3rd or 4th. (BetOnline and Ignition are easily better to play on and even Global is now very much in the conversation). The bots are still there but at least I see a better attempt by these other sites to try to address the issue.

https://www.sharkscope.com/#Player-S...ayers/Gluckauf

this is another one of the suspected bots from latvia

LOL

Ok.. I will make this very clear because you clearly dont listen to a word i say.

If anyone has an issue. PM me. I will check numerous times a day. I am not responding to the threads anymore when i have to repeat myself over and over again.

I will carry on reading and looking at issues and dealing with them.

Shame on me for trying shame on me.

https://www.twitch.tv/shipdontdie/cl...routYouDontSay

Here is an example of these two crushers taking standard lines here in this hand.

No shame on you for letting this bs go on and acting like your customers are not being cheated. Believe it or not, we are not stupid like you think

I dont know where i acted nothing is going on. Hence my previous response.

You can not be serious with this post, bro. If you claim as much as you say you care about the players, maybe you should quit your job. I'd rather have no job then work for a company, at worst, turning a blind eye to bots STEALING hundreds of thousands, if not millions of dollars from their players. Do you think this is something that's sustainable long term? Like, is this just going to keep going on while you're in some protected little bubble? The site will fold, or become much less popular, and you'll likely be out of a job regardless.

You can't just stick your head in the sand and claim "it's not my job" anymore. I used to feel bad for you because you're in a no win situation, in some respects, but comments like the ones you made above make me realize you deserve it ALL.

Live look at Winning_TD

These clips are actually gold lmao

Great work WPN

This is pretty hilarious. Did it malfunction? Does it always play like that HU? Has that account ever won a tourney? So many questions.

If FoxRox plays another tourney on WPN that is a horribly bad look.

Heh I looked at the nl25 top winners list and 13 of the 20 are the same bot. It appears to be the same one from the hysteric200 botring on stars some years ago. Those guys got to play for a while and I think I didn't even get a refund, because stars couldn't prove they were bots, just closed their accounts on suspicious behavior or whatever.

So anyway I guess they have some top notch methods to avoid detection and taking the hate out on the rep here for a management decision of not banning players they can't actually prove are bots is pointless. Winning-td can't just come out here saying yes it's pretty obvious the botring exists and my superiors are making a poor decision.

Ya, maybe in the year you signed up on 2+2. In 2019 these bitches are taking real money out of the games.

I play only limit games and cannot even sit in a game anymore. If you think bots can crush NL games imagine what they can do in a solvable game.

In most states in the USA felony theft is usually between $500 to $1,000. These cheats even on an individual scale are perpetrators of felonies.

No, I offered that as a possibility for both WPN and other sites. No idea if they actually are.

Agreed. Ten years ago I never even cared about Bots. But bots these days that are tied into HEM/PT are silly good.

It is very hard to get HU in a deep field like a 10K.
How scary is that there is a video evidence of a BOT that probably has played several dozen tournaments a day that can get heads up in a 10k.

How much money are these things taking out of the ecosystem? PS FT back in the day would have tens of thousands of players daily.
As one of the few sites still available in US I always thought it strange that WPN would strangle their customers by allowing bots.
IMO WPN could easily have tremendous traffic, but it chooses rather to strangle the rec player.

Any news on if WPN has suspended the account or going to refund the money?

Full on Poker Scandal!


I bet WPN is sorry this guy was streaming and caught it all on video.
Or maybe they don't care (more likely).

According to acr on Twitter the account has been suspended pending an investigation

There needs to be an investigation?

Does it really matter?
To maximize sign up bonuses & to avoid detection many bots just create new accounts anyway as a normal matter of business.

Guaranteed New account w/ new screen name is up and running right now by same botter.

Until some serious ant-bot counter measures in place then still going to happen.

1) change screen graphics frequently
2) known bot user profiles after so many hands have same stats. Flag those accounts for review.
3) add an easy to click "report suspicious behavior" button next to player's name. Just like you can make player notes on someone. Reports directly hand and game to WPN. Instead you have to email after the fact with hand number - a major pain & IMO rarely done.
4) add a click if you are alive "pop up" randomly on suspicious accounts. Say if you get a flag (#3) it triggers a pop up that a live player must click.

This forum can come up with dozens of easy to implement anti-bot measures, I am sure.

bardos11 is a bot

Does anyone agree?
Crushes the PLO25 games all day every day

ipokers mtts are filled with these same bots

Yes bardos11 is a known bot. It is one of the accounts I put in this spreadsheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...h4E/edit#gid=0

The total bots, both retired and currently active that I have now identified is over 80 accounts at PLO cash. Truly disgusting.

Regarding WPN suspeding the FoxRox account, I don't think it really matters, I'm sure the account is going to be allowed to cash out and funds simply moved to a brand new account. Until WPN demonstrates proactive and not simply reactive measures, I think it is safe to assume that bots will continue business as usual.

I guess I didn't strike you as credible.


I agree that every network probably has some amount of bots. It's just the reality of online poker these days. The difference is the bot-to-real player-ratio and the prevention and removal effectiveness of the different networks. WPN would consistently rank poorly and at, or near, the bottom of any legitimate list with regards to how they handle bots. It's a pretty good indication when bot forums rank them as one of the lowest risks for detection of any network.

The fact that Stars has had bot issues in the past or that, even today, a few computer savvy/stealthy individuals might manage to go undetected while playing at Stars should not, in any way, be used to diminish the flack WPN should receive for how they handle the issue. It's night and day.

I also agree that there's tons of accusations posted by losing players without any evidence. They are rightfully asked to provide evidence and their claims are dismissed when they fail to do so.

On the other hand, people like HandofGod666, FernandoCosta, and numerous others have actually posted statistical evidence that is highly indicative of botting accounts playing on this network. We've been told that this information gets passed along to security and, yet, many of the accounts have remained for long periods after.

Many of us also have a good filter for BS. It's clear who is doing the BSing when the accounts are still active after very credible evidence has been provided.


Several people have, including myself. There aren't many alternatives for players in the USA, so I can't fault those who stay too much.

I think it's in the best interest of the poker community to make anyone who might be considering playing there aware of WPN's true stance towards bots, regardless of what they say publicly.

Players who are able to consistently back up this fact with statistical evidence are assets to the community. If they all took their wallet elsewhere then we'd be left without evidence to back up our claims.


I couldn't agree more. The mods, and more specifically Mike and Bobo, do a lot of thankless work that keeps this place running well. They both deserve a lot more love from 2+2 members!

Some of us even appreciate your insights and contributions to the community, even if we feel that you may be a bit too biased at times.


Monopoly? They don't even have the most traffic of the sites catering to the USA. I'm not even sure they would account for 1/3 of all online poker traffic in the USA right now. There are other options. Each has its pros and cons.


When you add in all of the different game types they play: NLHE and PLO cash, MTTs, SNGs, Jackpots, etc. 8 figures doesn't seem too out of them realm of possibility if you've correctly estimated 3 million taken from the PLO cash tables.


I think the probability that these bot users use multiple accounts is very high. It's possible that the total amount of individual bots users is 1/3, or less, of the amount of total bots. The result is an overwhelming amount of total bots.


Very good insights and suggestions! I actually offered them a long list of suggestions prior to their dedicated forum being closed. I don't think they even acknowledged it. Hopefully they like you a little more than me.


If we can tell they're bots just from looking at their tendencies and statistical similarities then why can't your security team determine that they're bots and remove them all? Their methods are clearly ineffective.

I know it's not your job, but anybody in your position would have an opinion on this. Honestly, what is your theory on why so many of these accounts remain after they're investigated?

We're seriously just looking for honesty from you, not for you to make stuff happen that is out of your control.

quote
I know it's not your job, but anybody in your position would have an opinion on this. Honestly, what is your theory on why so many of these accounts remain after they're investigated?

We're seriously just looking for honesty from you, not for you to make stuff happen that is out of your control.

I am too honest which comes back and bites me in the arse. I do have an opinion on this whole situation and many other things but it doesnt really matter. I am not the game play integrity team and i cant ban accounts even if i want to or suspect something. I send alot of info to the security team and that is the height of my power in the matter.

Again over the years i have been very honest, I would say more honest than any other rep who just comes back with. Thank you for your feedback, we will look into it. My honest feedback and many honest conversations have come back to bite me in the arse on many occasions because the truth of it is. Most (not all) poker players dont want the truth. They want a scandal, a conspiracy they want a reason why things arent going well. I know how it feels to run like death and feel like the world is against you. Luckily for me i now work in poker, not playing poker for a living.

Actually that isn't what is going on here at all. There is actual cheating going on and players are being stolen from.

Again I have never said that it doesnt exist. I really dont understand why you keep going on like i have