I have personally gotten hundreds of bots removed from various networks over the years. Not by my own research in most cases (though I have contributed in this regard), but by forwarding every credible case I come across.

What you have to understand however is that in the last decade and a half I have been given 100x more garbage information than legitimate and actionable information. Furthermore, it is not my job to police these networks. Every time I do it it has cost me time away from the felt, from my businesses, from my family, from my ladyb̶o̶y̶s̶ friends, etc. Don't get me wrong, I happily do that to in order to give back to the game and the community that helped me to build my career, but there are limits to my time and the effort I can put into this type of task.

I do not always succeed at achieving results by the way. There are many cases I have forwarded that didn't get handled for one reason or another. There are also many that did. I have a heavy filter for these sorts of accusations as a means of protecting my time, my sanity, and keeping my contacts on my team. Part of the reason I have success in forwarding this information to appropriate parties is that I have a good success rate for forwarding quality information. I can't just inundate security managers with theories and weak claims because they would stop prioritizing my information.

I will continue to do what I can, and that is all I can promise you.


Thanks... I think?



Ditto. I think you described this well. I do however randomly insult people that piss me off because I'm a bigger douche than you could ever be



Everyone I spoke to at WPN, including talking to Phil in person about the matter, said they simply declined to respond.


You see, this is the thing. I agree that bots exist on WPN. They exist on every site, including those with top-notch security like PokerStars. However, mot people that SWEAR TO GOD BOTS ARE EVERYWHERE are simply losing players with human minds that are remarkable at justifying things.

I really think that if you believe what you say is true, voting with your wallet is the best course of action. Take your business elsewhere, that is what I would do if I felt the way you feel.



This right here is an extremely good point. I would like to go on record and suggest that WPN security form a special task force to cross-reference bot claims against the behavior of players post software upgrade. While this will not be a smoking gun by any means, the sheer fact that many people disappear after a large upgrade is a tell and when combined with other, perhaps less than satisfactory evidence, could be enough to suss out quite a few botters and boot them from the site once and for all.

Winning_TD, please make sure that this idea is brought up to Phil, Ops, Security, etc. It has a lot of merit IMHO.



I can confirm that Winning_TD is a real human being with real feelz. I have seen him perform most of the 7 deadly sins with a ruthless efficiency that no robot or cyborg could hope to achieve. I have seen him happy, sad, and piss drunk. He's a guy who cares about poker, but he can't do everything for everyone.... they pay him **** wages and work him to death.



I most certainly am on the side of the community, as is Bobo. Again, we just filter out more than you do and we have other things to do with our lives besides hunt bots 24/7.

With regard to the specific case you mentioned, it is the first I've read about it. I haven't been on the forums much lately. I will admit that spring is in the air and I am not in a ****ing office hating life and reading forums.

Had I been notified of a spreadsheet full of credible information on 5 dozen suspected bots, I damned sure would have forwarded it to the people I think best suited to handle it.

Again though, most people who claim bots bots bots have **** for information. I dismiss MOST of them outright because I do not have the energy. However if I think someone has even a smidgen of credibility to their claim I ask them to provide more and specific information that I could actually forward to someone and make a case for real investigation... MOST of those people never follow up.



Don't hold your breath. It literally took years from when I was first shown mobile software to when it actually went live (in the limited capacity that it is offered).

I do truly believe they are working on new software and want it badly, but there are limitations to how quickly these these can be created, and created properly.




I think Bobo and other mods don't get enough credit for what they do. Mike Haven, Bobo Fett, and RainbowWarrior (miss you man!) spend(t) enormous amounts of time helping strangers day in and day out. Most of them for slave wages or less. No they aren't perfect, but they damned sure do care about the community, and I don't think that should be in question. Like I said above though, they have a heavy filter or else they would be overwhelmed by forum bull****.

I think the fact that Bobo tries at all to participate and help these claims see the light of day is commendable. He doesn't get paid to do that. He does not play on US-friendly offshore poker sites. He just helps because he cares.




You are a prolific grinder. I respect you and I respect your abilities.

With that said, I have been accused of being a bot hundreds, perhaps thousands of times and I'm sure you have been as well.

I have personally grinded for days on end with such short breaks that it might be imperceptible to other players, even hard core grinders such as yourself. I won "Last Man Standing" vs 5,000+ person fields two years in a row and it required me to dig deep and pull all sorts of tricks out of my bag. I was using things like polyphasic sleep schedules, modafinil, and timed nutrition to increase my endurance beyond that of a mere mortal. Some people just want it badly enough. Some of these guys might be using similar tricks, living a single life with no distractions, and highly motivated to put an extra 2.5k in their accounts (think 3rd world people where that is multiples of what people often make in a year of hard labor).

I think you are probably one of the best people to spot outliers and suspicious players, but realize that there are definitely people capable of majestic feats of grinding... I was one of them [you should absolutely collect information that seems out of line however and if these people are grinding 3+ days straight for weeks on end, that is something that would warrant investigation IMHO because it is extremely difficult to sustain]

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Kahn

Fine my end pal, has been all week

Yea also the software crashed on me, and when I restarted the client the email verification thing popped up. I don't see any streamers on twitch having client crashes, but I get them at least once per day, tonight I've already had two

Unfortunately WPN has a de facto monopoly on the US online poker market. US players simply have no options that are not bot infested (their competition features the same bot ring).

Players that do not reside in the USSA absolutely do vote with their wallet, and that is why you don't see many foreign players grinding WPN cash.

Try uninstalling with Revo, rebooting, reinstalling from scratch.

They have KYC and AML laws they must comply with. You must use real and complete information.

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Kahn

Been getting this the past couple of weekends. After I bust a tourney it won't let me re-enter for some tournaments. It doesn't ask if I want to re-enter. When I select the tournament and look at the tournament in the lobby the button to register says re-enter but when I click it, nothing happens. I've made sure there aren't any popups also.

Please help! I'd like to register more than once.

Question about withdrawals on ACR... I just tried to withdraw about $300 from ACR via bitcoin. They cancelled that withdrawal so I called customer support to find out why. The man on the phone told me that in order to withdraw the amount I requested I would have to pay an additional 10% in rake in order to do so. I've never heard of anything like this before, is this normal?

Yes, that is their policy. You have to rake 10% of your deposit.

yeah, you gotta rake 10% of your deposit amount to be eligible for a withdrawal... casino and sportsbook wagers don't count either

Hey, for the 1k, 200k GTD tournament on Sunday, for the highest stake buyin of the week and also one of the biggest guarantees, would you be able to fix how at blind levels, 20k/40k, the next jump goes to 25/50k instead of what it is now, 30k/60k.

A 50% blind jump, deep ITM seems a bit silly for such a good tournament.

Thanks

@Winning_TD

Unfortunately I had my absolute worst online poker experience today. While I usually love and look forward to playing tournaments for 10+ hours every Sunday (in addition to a day or two during the week). I will be ending my sessions immediately upon experiencing the software issues I did today as it's unbearable to deal with and honestly put me on tilt the whole day.

1. Certain tournaments cannot be re-entered without restarting the client. Unless I am on break I simply cannot restart the client in order to re-enter the tournament. This happened 5-6 times today and has been happening the past 4-5 weeks but not as much and not in tandem with issue #2.

2. While 6 tabling over $1000 worth of buy ins, I suddenly got 6 popups (one for each table) saying that my account was already logged in elsewhere. After this I was no longer able to play anything and restarting the client did not help at all. I called in and after 5 minutes of being blinded out and losing chips, the person on the phone did something and I was able to log in and continue playing.
Unfortunately, about 2 hours later the exact same thing happened again. I called in asking the operator to fix the issue. He insisted on doing a bunch of other things and I expressed that I just wanted him to fix the issue so I could get back to my games instead of losing all my chips. I conveyed to him that I had over $1000 worth of tournaments and didn't want to wait any longer. He ignored my wish and instead told me to clear my internet browsing history and cookies. After this did not work, he still did not want to just fix my issue and instead put me on hold to ask his manager/supervisor if this issue was occurring a lot today. Finally when he came back he told me to make sure I was logged out and that he would reset something. Immediately I was able to log back in and sit back down at my games. Why couldn't he just do this initially like I had asked?
I came back to whittled down stacks, one of which was 3bb.

And some version of that is normal on many other sites as well. There are costs for depositing and withdrawing that sites look to recover, and anti-money laundering regulations may come in to play.

Tonight something truly incredible happened where a latvian mtt bot malfunctioned hu, and proceeded to fold every blind heads up, even folding when it had 1.1bb left in the big blind, getting 60-1 pot odds. Shame on you WINNING_TD.

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/407900431

Are you seriously suggesting that WPN is beholden to AML regulations?

Yeah, winningtd check out that clip. It is so insanely obvious that isn't a human playing on that account.

What's the big deal? It's only taken 35K out of the games.

I assume thats why almost all the Eastern Euro bot accounts have their stats blocked on sharkscope. So people can't see how many games they have played and how much they are up.

Why worry anout bots ? I welcome them , they are easier to exploit. You must be a really bad player to not take advantage of them.

You're joking, right? Did you see the amount of money that one bot is taking out of the games? That's one bot. There's probably hundreds of active bots on the network. Just because you can exploit some bots doesn't mean they're good for the games. If they were all breaking even or losing then that might be a different story. Unfortunately, that's not the case. The bots are pulling large amounts of money out of the games.

I'd like to do some postflop statistical analysis on these latvian mtt bots. If anyone is willing to let me take a look at a database PM me.

I estimate the total amount the PLO cash bots are stealing is over 3 million USD a year. I have no idea what the scope of the NLHE botring is, but I am aware of one account that won the $2500 tier of the beast every week last year and also was showing 6 figures profit pre-rakeback on statname (which usually gets less than 50% of hands).

We are talking probably 8 figures a year that these bots are stealing from WPN ecosystem. This is unacceptable.

Shame on you WINNING_TD

His job is to take suggestions from oblivious MTT players on tournament structures and to ignore the obvious gorillas ripping the room apart.

Shame on me. I really dont know what to make of that comment towards me. Do you guys understand what my job is? Do you realise that i am also not paid to sit here and mod this thread. I do it because i try and help.
I will make it clear again. I am not security. I send many names on to security and they inform me that they will get investigated.

YES shame on you.

You, Thrasher, and Chopsy2 made a mockery out of former bot threads by deleting posts, trolling and derailing. The problem on WPN today is worse by your actions in the past.

Did you look at the clip? It is unreal how you just act like nothing is going on.

Some of us just have had enough with the bot circus going on your network.