in regards to this i have to disagree quite abit with it and what was said before.

clubs and unions are pretty much independant entities and they can set rules as they please. this is an entirely free market and you can choose yourself if you wanna play under those stipulations or if you want to stay away.


the main pokerbros unions have managed in pretty spectacular form what almost any app failed to do before: offer very good & fair games over long period of time.

guys who win several 10k each month are terrible for the clubs/unions bc they will bust whales in lightning speed, make games ****, decrease traffic.

so you have a couple of choices as a union:

1. do nothing = games will go to ****, traffic will go down
2. ban big winners = more and more strong regs wont be allowed to play
3. increase earnings by taking a cut of big winners


of all those 3 options number 3 is probably the preferable one for players and site alike. The big unions doing a pretty damn good job of running things compared to almost any other app. there is a reason for this extreme hype about this one app lately.


also the winning tax/action stuff is usually directly related to your agent. if your agent has only regs and will only bring winning players to the site the value of this agent for the site is very low so if they even allow him to bring players they want to earn for it.

if your agent has mostly fish and the odd whale he's incredibly valuable for the union/clubs and there will most likely not be any action/winning tax charged


overall i think this is all fairly logical and far from being scummy or dirty. it's simple business 101

Sure, Tim,

business 101. I don't remember you being so understanding when Stars started doing 'simple business' for their ecosystem and you (then, as just a player) noped the fk out of there.

I agree with you but would add a 4th option, something that was mentioned before. Winning players can be taxed but then those funds can be redistributed to losing players. I'm not sure if that's the ideal solution, but it's one worth exploring.

Yeah but the thing is that money will never end up w players. It would end up with the "loser" agent and he would most likely keep it

How does the rake compare to other sites?

One guy offered me 30% rakeback.. that good?

What is cheapest way to deposit? Coinbase pro? to get bitcoin
or another method?

You can probably find anything from 0-40% but more important should be:

1. Are they reliable?
2. Are they guaranteeing your deposits?
3. Are they guaranteeing your winnings?
4. How much action you have to sell/other fees?

Crypto is usually most convinient to handle

What Percentage of the player pool are players like this? 1%? What % of players have a winrate higher than the avg players rake paid in bb/100? <1%?


if your goal is to offer good and fair games over a long period of time then by far the best option is to lower the rake cap and %, do you agree?

How is each player paying nearly 10bb/100 at a NLHE 6max table or nearly 20bb/100 at a PLO 6max table fair?

Also TimStone, if you are going to try to justify why its good to charge extra rake/cashout fees/hidden action stealing (you have offered deals like this on your Phils clubs) for winning players then I think you should let everyone know how much your agency makes per month. You are definitely NOT on the players side here imo.

Honestly i would have no problem taxing top 10% winners and giving it back to the bottom 10% losers, at least it keeps the economy roling a bit. But none of the money goes to the losers so your argument that this is somehow better for the game is bs.

Why not just give all the fish extra rakeback?

Agents have a total conflict of interest as far as I’m concerned.. they want players earning rake and winning players last longer and earn more rake on average than losers.

So in order to make the games better agents would have to ban or disincentivize winners by cutting rake.

So now the agent is in a bad spot because he wants to keep his players playing high volume.

My agent got kicked out of one of the biggest unions recently (and all his players including me) because overall they said "his" players were winning "too much".

Might want to add that as an option. Although I guess it's a version of #2.

Sorry if it's been asked already but whats the best HUD for Pokerbros? Dont mind paying for it .

So guys, a very popular poker YouTuber recently advertised PokerBros in one of’his latest videos. He’s an agent and apparently has been for a little while but he’s expanding his operation. I joined the Telegram group he advertised and inquired about the rakeback offerings. The rakeback is considerably lower than the offerings of other agents, and hundreds of guys are in there not knowing they’re getting absolutely fleeced. This person is making outrageous amounts of money doing this, well into the 6 figures. This community is only so large and having individuals like this pull such absurd amounts of money out of the poker economy isn’t good for anyone except that individual agent. Do you think we as a community have a responsibility to inform others about how terrible the deals are that individuals like this are giving? I’m of the opinion that if we want the games to survive, we can’t have a situation where we have high rake and low rakeback. Would like to hear your guys thoughts.

yes of course. the more rakeback a losing player has the more money the winning players will earn and the less money goes to the poker site owners/operators and agents.

How does the rake model on Poker Bros compare with the standard?

Do they take 5% only if you win during the session?

and how does this compare to standard rake models currently used by Pokerstars etc?

thanks

Sounds like you are asking that everyone receives the same amount of rakeback, in which case why have rakeback at all? Just lower the rake.

i mean sure, but he was specifically talking about someone offering rakeback deals. so yea if there is someone offering noobs shitty deals then I think something should be said.

Absolutely amazing that people are now trying to bring socialism into poker. Go home.

Would love to know who “Action Andy” is.

Dude NEVER loses. Always see him with 5-10k across multiple tables daily. Never loses. Ever.

?

Here's the problem with that - you call someone out for what you think is their shitty deal, and now they're compelled to respond. In fairly defending themselves, they're basically advertising their deal. Not only that, we get the thread derailed with back-and-forths about what is or isn't a good deal. This is exactly what just happened in only three posts, two of which I deleted.

If someone knows of an affiliate that is scamming people, IE stealing their money, that should be posted about. If people want to know if X% is a fair deal, then I suppose they can ask that in this thread without mentioning names and people can give their opinions. But I don't think we want to let this thread be turned into a running debate about whether affiliate X's offer of A, B, and C is better than affiliate Y's offer of D, E, and F. As it is, we have enough issues already with people joining up here just so they can drum up business.

And speaking of drumming up business, several of you have PMed me in reply to my earlier post about advertising - you're not forgotten or being ignored; I'll be getting back to you today or tomorrow. We're not taking anyone on until next month anyway, so we have a couple of weeks to put things together. You'll be hearing from me shortly, though.

oh ok...

Hi guys, how are you guys doing today?

Guys, i have been seeing online some agencies now have been posting some deals charging cashout fees and in some cases taking hidden action on the deal by lying about the correct chip to $ amount. I asked some of the agents Why? Why are you charging me a cashout fee? Why are do you need to take my action? Why can't I just play on my own dime without a cashout fee like everyone else? One of the main answers that I received was that because I am a winning player, it means that I am bad for the poker ecosystem...I take the fishes money so fast! I make the games very very very bad and I decrease traffic to the poker site...wow I thought, they have a point!

But actually I think this is totally false, for example on 200nl 6max tables I am winning about 7bb/100 at pokerbros clubs, while rake paid is about 9bb/100, during peak times there is nearly 500 tables running on the bigger unions with basically every player at these tables paying close to 10bb/100 in rake...in PLO its even worse. Historically 90% of depositors end up losing. Pokerstars Net Profit/day is around $500k, I think the biggest winning players on Pokerstars make maybe 1MM/year... are winning players really the problem?

So guys, What do we think now when agents and site owners try to justify these added taxes? should we stand for this? Do they have any ground at all?

can't wait to engage in discussion with all you brillaint guys and have a Jolly day guys.

BTW make sure to keep this PG13 as the mods on here are borderline ******ed.

Would love to know if someone with decent sample can inform what badbeat jackpot bb/100 equals costing to players in long run in their estimation on this app. Assume you havent hit jackpot at all. Different stake different result ofc.
Also how does this compare to PPP bbj bb100 costs, since they have a bit different system.

Since this extra bbj rake isnt exactly calculated in any regular rake calcs. Regular non bbj rake seems to be around 8-10ish bb/100 as described above, and most winners on average on this app seem to not exceed beyond winrates that are similar to rake paid in long run, so roughly around 1:1 winnings vs rake paid.

I mean if ur blessed and hit bbjs good to be u, if u dont may be a problem.

They seem to get hit quite abit i saw 3 cases over the last 2 months where guys went home w 5-10k while playing lowstakes

I am not asking how often they get hit by random players.

Instead I am asking how much this costs you in bb100 on various stakes on this app (and compared to PPP) besides regular rake you pay on this app, assuming you happen to not hit those at all, which will happen to close to all/vast majority% of players for infinitely long periods of time.

Shiny big numbers for 1st places in massive AFS MTTs and pseudo-guarantees are attractive for recreational players as well, we get that.