Ditto. Can someone explain why banning regs is more +EV than all the rake they generate?

Schupick: I'm not close minded is all. You could take a lesson from that.

How is it close-minded to not trust a company that has systematically stolen from players for well over a year? Did you play on AP/UB after all of the scandals they had and it was proven that the same owners were still in charge? Unless Stars/Party/888 buys Lock, then I can't thing of any reason someone would ever put money on that site.

Even if they pay back their players, it's still the same management, and why would I ever think they wouldn't do something like that again? You argue that we can't trust Merge, because the management is bad, but Lock takes that bad and multiplies it by 20. What you suggest has zero merit.

If a person in the US was to deposit on Merge, exactly what kind of prepaid credit card would they buy and where would they get it? Thank you.

Last I checked, I live in the US. We don't have many choices here. Merge is doing every trick in the book in insure that players can't possibly make a living playing poker on their network. I'm not so sure that a site that doesn't let players win money to begin with is 20 times better than one that cashes money out at a criminally slow pace.

If Lock could show, at its new site, that it was running its business well, I would in fact consider playing there. There aren't many sites to chose from and there aren't enough players at any of those sites to just choose one site.

We all live under the dark cloud of the UIGEA and play on unregulated sites. If you think that your money isn't at risk everyday that it sits in your accounts, you are just fooling yourself. If you want to play it super-safe, you should stick to live games.

depositing should work with a prepaid visa. visa should be for international use. check the back. Walmart or local convenience store

p2 dog, I noticed earlier you said they bumped you to Elite. Could you post a screen shot of this? Could you inform the rest of us what your username is there? I'm eager to see what sort of stats you posted that prompted them to upgrade you and not me.
Thanks.

Can't be a prepaid Visa Gift Card from Walmart, those have GreenDot protection which stops your from depositing to a Gambling site.

There's alot of choices in US. Maybe we can't make the millions but alot of really good regs make really good money still on these sites. I don't get why everyone makes it seem like it's such a big deal taking all these risks about losing money on the sites. If your a winning player your rolling up the money anyways from your initial deposit. So just keep whatever you feel comfortable with leaving with on the sites. No big deal.

Photos of proper gift card would be great. Thank you.

i think the skins capped the number of tables because of the type of player that plays 8, 9, or 10+ tables. the skin(s) that did it are geared towards sports betting customers, right? access to a poker room probably makes is so certain sports bettors do not exclude them when choosing an online book because they like to donk around from time to time playing cards.

they do NOT want mass multi-tabling grinders playing is their fish pond, and why would they when their primary customer is a sports bettor who plays poker, in that order of importance.

but the second part is what made me respond. any EVIDENCE that there are unimaginable "systemic problems" at Merge or did that thought just kinda go from thin air to keyboard?

a little while back i asked their Live Chat person this question. the answer was basically we cant guarantee the success of any particular type of cards BUT

"Young America Pre-Paid Card, ICBA Bank Card and prepaid Only1card.com"

is the list of cards they gave me with that caveat.

and i didnt end up buying and trying any of these, so this is just what support told me.

So you speak for Merge management with your suppositions? You seem to have their mindset all figured out don't you. From where sir do you get this keen insight into their minds? Just answer, why would a business throw away a customer that pays them tens of thousands per year in rake? Can you not understand how that is pure profit for them? Plus it gives them liquidity in their games, something they no longer have. They bought a poker network then imploded it. So why buy it to begin with? To offer a couple 'sports bettors' a place to play free from skillful players? Yeah, right, that will pay for the cost of acquisition of Merge.

Also, it's you who said unimaginable systemic problems, not me. The problems I mentioned are the ones that are presently playing out month to month. I think it's pretty clear to players, there are systemic problems happening at Merge. It's definitely not unimaginable, it's reality. When Chico kicks your ass overnight, that's a problem,

pretty sure you said that? systemic problems we cant understand are unimaginable systemic problems...or un-understandable systemic problems maybe?

evidence the people who operate the skins that went to a 2 table cap own the entire Merge network?

and the rake thing. rake is like 5% of each pot right? so a sports betting fish plays a $100 pot against a skilled grinder, and obviously loses. from the skins perspective its not "sweet, $5 in rake!" *high fives all around*

they're thinking "our customer for sports betting just lost $50 that will be cashed out never to be seen again, and if that hadn't happened that same $50 would have ended up in our account from losing bets.

How much do you deposit per year?

Wow. Just wow. Please go play on Lock and stop posting about how "bad" Merge is in comparison. Maybe visit the thread for Merge players that have been awaiting cashouts for over 6 months? Oh wait, there isn't one.

i can completely see and understand the argument that the skins want the sports bettors to keep their money within the sportsbook. it MAY be more profitable for them in the long run that way.

however, if that is the case, why even include/offer the choice of poker to the sports bettors in the first place?

when i start a session, i'd join 3-4 running tables and also would sit at 5-6 empty tables. within 20 minutes all of those previously empty tables would be cranking away. i've explained this multiple times to the "support", and i would think that the rake generated by having DOUBLE the amount of tables running would be profitable for the site.

if however that's either not profitable for them in the long run; then they should just get rid of their poker room altogether. if i wanted to grind one table for hours, i'd go to the local casino.

PS: i just happen to be on the sportsbook skin because i deposited on their site to bet some NFL this year. then when i realized they offered poker too, i figured i'd grind some. can't imagine they would want me to pull money off of their to play on merge or another skin; but, that's the impression they've been giving which is just dumbfounding.

From the business side of things, there is no "MAY" about it. SB/Casino play is an order of magnitude more profitable than poker play. If you'll notice almost all of the poker rooms still servicing the US market are backed by sportsbooks and casinos. Poker is but a small fraction of the earnings of everyone who offers it...

--
Kahn

Anyone post cash out times anymore?
Looked thru bout 5 pages, that was it

This is from my database for this year at Players Only, so the rake shown is rake that has been paid by all players on tables I was sitting in at for the year. This only covers 358 hours. But yea, I'm sure limiting players to 2 tables will certainly be more profitable for them...

It's definitely more profitable for them. Sports bettors rarely cashout. Having poker available just makes them lose their money faster than they would betting sports alone. They want them to lost their money via the rake though, having winning players on the site is an unnecessary cost that they only partly recoup when the winning multitabling players bet sports. This is nothing more than a business trying to maximize profits. Getting butthurt about it or saying this is a sign of some systemic problem is ridiculous.

This is also true for international. Tons of companies post public financial records, and you don't need to be an expert to be able to read what they say. Poker players, and grinders especially, think they are way more important and profitable for a site than they really are. A sharp reality check would serve a lot of people really well.

http://www.bwinparty.com/Investors/F...20Results.aspx

That figure is super misleading. it doesn't include outlays of money: withdraw processing fees, rakeback, bonus, affiliate payments, infrastructure, overlays, etc.

First off, I never said this is what they are netting, but this is what they are raking. Keep in mind that this only covers 358 table hours, which is 14.9 days of rake if you were playing 24 hours a day. This also only covers a small percent of the tables that were running..tables that I was personally on.

You also mentioned that this doesn't cover rakeback, well Players only doesn't have rakeback, and they changed their VIP program so that you cannot even trade in your points for cash anymore.

So to summarize, in 15 days, Merge raked in over $379,000 on tables that I was sitting in on. Whatever their cost of doing business, if you don't think they are making a ridiculous profit then you are delusional.

it's still less than sports betting.