How hard is it for dude to fix it and make it legal

Getting out my old 2+2 account for this nonsense. While the guy is right about the charts being hilariously overpriced some of his criticism is complete nonsense.

Apparently he mashed in 10 different preflop raise and 3b sizes into monker and claims that make his results better?

Does anyone actually pay that snakesoil sales man for poker coaching?! TERRIBLE.

Frankly the worst charts shown in the entire video are his own

Edit: after further investigation he uses 3 preflop RFI sizes in monker and only 10 buckets on each street. Texture set on low for turn and river.

Unlike that zennith guy i actually know what i'm talking about and make a living play poker/building sims for fellow professionals. RYE's charts are utter garbage.

At a bare minimum he has to blur out every single part of the charts that he’s not directly addressing.

The “right thing” do to, if we consider publicly trashing competing products fair game, would be to not post any other charts but do his own slides where he lists the hands / parts of the range that he wants to talk about.

One of the most important factors regarding “fair use” is purpose. Zenith Poker sells poker content so the use of a competitors chart is clearly for-profit. If he blurred out the non-relevant stuff, he could at least argue with for-profit educational use which is somewhat of a grey area.

Any chance he gets sued for this?

The funniest part is how he claims his ranges are the best because they have 5 different rfi and 10 different 3bet sizings so that you can get "accurate results" against the action you faced

It's a very simple system witch charts specifically tailored for 675 different preflop situations that anyone can learn.

I can't wait for the MTT course that's going to deal with all the different RFI sizes and 3bet responses in 13 different stack depths.

It's going to be 8775 charts that's going to keep everyone ready and prepared for every conceivable contingency.

But what about multiway pots? What happens if UTG raises to 2.2BB, UTG1 folds, UTG2 calls, MP calls, HJ folds, CO folds, BU calls, SB folds and BB calls?

At Zenith poker, we have a chart for that.

But what if UTG raises to 2.5BB, UTG1 folds, UTG2 calls. MP calls, HJ calls, CO folds, BU calls, SB folds and BB decides to 3bet to 14.5BB instead of 12B.5BB as the one size fits all approach of our competitors recommends?

At Zenith poker, we have a chart for that.

But what if UTG raises to 2.5BB, UTG1 folds, UTG2 calls, MP calls, HJ calls, CO folds, BU calls, Sb folds, the BB decides to 3bet to 14.5BB and we are 55BB deep instead of 100BB?

Zenith poker has a chart for exactly this situation along with another 95,650 situations.

With all the knowledge provided by these charts... how can you lose?

How tf did they do a preflop sim this big anyway
Equilibrium calcs for resolving tensions in the middle east would require less memory

I doubt any of the charts generates enough revenue and the video probably doesn’t get enough views to make that worthwhile.

An obvious fair use violation that might get you sued is sharing the pdf of a book online because that results in people not buying that book.
Textbook example of something that’s not a punishable violation because there is no financial damage: the case of Jerry Falwell printing a parody of himself that was published in Hustler Magazine and using that print for his own fundraising efforts. In that case, the Hustler issue in question wasn’t sold anymore so there weren’t any losses to recoup (Falwell also sued Hustler for publishing that caricature but lost a 8-0 Supreme Court decision)

If the streamer is in America, and someone who created one of these precious "raise good hands fold bad hands" charts is also in America, then it's incredibly likely. Also incredibly likely that nobody in this whole episode has lost more than $3.50, but hey, 'murica, sue anyway and let the lawyers win

He shares his technique for solving in the video.
-cut down game tree to solve by position. (For example we only solve for LJ RFI and remove all other nodes)
- we mash in 10 raise sizes
- we set texture to low and only use 10 buckets.

And in another video i found he ran postflop in monker with 4 sizings. Too bad he only ran the sim for a total of 30 minutes so he only got through 3 iterations.

So yea he didn’t solve ****.

He didn't show all the charts only a sample of them right?

To campare to the ones he created which are better (correct) and ridiculous overpriced ones (also correct) that are sold in several places. Seems fine to me. Should be praised instead of criticized, unless you make money selling overpriced products for the quality or payed for them yourself.

no damages, no problem?

whats point of multiple sizes pre if all ur sims postflop to learn gto were with the basic 2.5x ranges. )))

stupidity overload

Imagine someone telling you in the early 2000's that this would be peak poker drama in 2021

who has better charts preflop )) that 3% frequency diffrence gotta squeeze that edge than just do a random 100bb punt postflop. nerd style

He could have done it in a more tactful way, but it's great to see someone finally calling out all these snake oil courses being peddled in the wake of solvers. As someone who's gone through plenty of 1k courses (and thankfully didn't pay for them) they're almost all extremely lazy cash grabs. I don't need to pay 1k for the privilege of listening to some guy clicking through questionable sims and offering no valuable input of his own.

TBH the only course I've seen that actually felt worth the asking cost was Kanu's

I think the quality of the review matters most. If he's going through their ranges and they're honestly of poor quality, then I'd thank him. If he's finding subjective ways to trash competitors, then he's pretty shady himself.

There's room for some middle ground above, but trying to see if it leans heavily towards one way or another seems like the first step I'd take if I were a customer of those types of charts/someone evaluating this situation.

My first thought was "does this person sell ranges themselves? Oh look, they do... hmmm." Doesn't mean it's shady, after all, who better to evaluate a topic than someone with expertise?, but it does set off the radar a bit. I'd rather see a quality proven winner and forward thinker that doesn't sell ranges reviewing the most popular hand range products.

The whole copyright stuff seems like a distraction to me, at least in the scope of this thread and forum users/customers. If it's relevant to the content creators, he's not an unknown, he has a business, let the b2b stuff play out.

Pro tip: whenever u see powerpoint presentations its a money grab. no highstakes plr will ever tell u in their courses how exactly they are gaining the massive ev from.

Yeah, thx to the Robin Hood of poker for calling them out...while selling a 35 pager named „Mastering Poker“ for only 100 bucks or so

The quality of his review seems poor. Most of his argument seems based on the idea that pre-flop charts should cover all the different situations and different sizes.

As others have pointed out, this would end up with a ridiculous amount of charts even for a 6max game, never mind 9 handed and tournaments, that nobody could remember anyway!

He also seems to think that you must have a calling range from every position. So raise or fold from Small Blind is for him not good.

Aside from that, if you want to review someone's product, courtesy would be to ask them for permission at least

the entire poker training and poker stables industry is a disgrace. gone are the days when good regulars were making training videos not because they couldnt win at the tables but because they were too lazy to grind or unmotivated so they got some money from sites by sharing their knowledge.


i still remember brian townsend training vides on cardrunners, now that was value for the money that u payed, not what u get today.

Not cool trashing your competitors like that, but i must say some of those charts look very lazily done. Like whats up with raising 2.2 from every position. In short the charts all look incomplete. Was surprised the chart by overnight monster looked so janky. I watch alvin teaches poker all the time and he seems to know his ****.

I think that might be part of the problem. A lot of these chart makers also play poker so of course they arent gonna give you the keys to the kingdom