Yeah the missed rake is the massive downside I failed to mention, good point . The general turnout to casinos is already accomplished by Collosus etc.

But again, I think the missed rake might be offset by bigger interest in qualifying events. If WSOP wants to keep the money in their own events just restrict qualification to bracelet events, WSOP circuit events, and WSOP online events. Again it could be a low bar like any cash at all in the last two years or any five-figure cash lifetime. And that would add excitement to min cashing a circuit or bracelet event.

They named the 50k the pokers player championship in an almost tacit admission that the Main Event is NOT for poker players but in my opinion it should be. And winning the Main should be about beating other poker players not who can get the best table draw with rich fish. But even most serious poker players can’t play a 50k 9 game (though that’s a great event).

We’re probably also overdue to make it a 15k as well given inflation.

First couple of days remote makes sense while the days are fixed to playing certain levels. I don’t see playing to the money bubble working. Hand by hand effectively impossible. Some locations player pool not deep enough so they would get short too soon. Etc.

That would only work if travel & accommodations would be paid for everyone who has to travel to Vegas.

I think they should have a French speaking announcer since the final table is going to be in Paris casino . And a mime.

It is an ok idea. IMO much better than limit field size, qualify to get in or three days of unlimited re-entries. But again IMO only the best idea among bad ones

I think the re-entry problems have been covered. The qualifying points idea would either limit out too many folks or be set so low it didn’t limit anyone. What about the pro cash game specialist? The cash game rec who has a lifetime score in a cash game and decides to take a onetime shot? The big time (or not so big) celebrity. These are often the folks who bring the life to the event. Certainly more so then the pro robots playing pseudo GTO.

Maybe playin satties where you have unlimited entries but only X move on to the ME. But is this really very different from multiple starting days? (This isn’t too different than the US open in golf.) maybe have some no qualification entries like past campions, HOF members, etc.

But I don’t see why covering travel is necessary. Everyone knows if they make it they have to travel. If they don’t show blind them off.

LetÂ’s say we go with my suggested qualification of any tournament cash in the last two years or any five figure cash lifetime.

The cash pro can play a few warmup tournaments to get a quick min cash. Cash and tournaments are different anyway so he should play a warm up. And the vast majority of cash pros whoÂ’ve been around have gotten some random five figure donkament cash at some point. I know many cash pros who almost never play tournaments but have a five figure cash from some random donkament years ago. If you know good professional cash players I bet youÂ’ll see the same 90% of the time and the other 10% play a warmup and min cash.

The rec cash player, if he just ran hot in one night of a cash game but isnÂ’t actually good at tournaments he is the type of player to filter out.

As far as the celebrity, we can agree to disagree but I just donÂ’t think the most prestigious tournament of the year should have Vince Vaughn in it just because heÂ’s famous and has the money to blow. It also makes the event more about table draw to see who gets Vince Vaughn to their left and who gets Stephen Chidwick.

And look, if any of these three players want their shot all weÂ’re asking is they play a few warmups and mincash something. If they lack tournament experience they should play a warmup, itÂ’s good for the smaller tournament scene, and itÂ’s extreme attainable by anyone who seriously wants it.

Sure if the event is purely for entertainment I see Vince Vaughn being good for the game but I also donÂ’t see this scenario where him playing the Main causes a new moneymaker boom. I do see a scenario where we trim the riff-raft from the event , thereÂ’s now 3k runners and youÂ’ll see more Hellmuth Negraneau Ivey at the final table. Hellmuth at the final table would be much better for the game than Vince Vaughn Day 1. Especially since again we need to get over the delusion weÂ’re bringing all of Main Street back to the game but instead get those with some interest who have seen some Negraneau YouTube clips now watch him play for millions. Watching Negraneau dunk on Scarlett Johansson Day 1 is just stupid and if Scarlett really wants her shot then play a warm up event and earn it.

The WSOP should create the WSOC (World Series of Chess).

F.I.D.E is the most important chess organization. It has a budget of only 5 million euro but it has 350,000 members. That's a huge pool of serious game players that can be pulled into Las Vegas and possibly get to spillover into the WSOP.

Chess is in somewhat of a boom. It would cost the WSOP relatively nothing to dominate chess and promote poker at the same time. Give the WSOC its own ballroom at the end of the hall so that the players and audiences going there would be forced to pass by the poker ballrooms and attract their curiosity.

Magnus Carlson can easily get backing to play in the earliest events and in the Main Event. The publicity within the chess world would be insane.

A popular chess player (female streamer) could be the next Moneymaker.

I say we put Dream Crusher and Manner Please in a cage match at the next WSOP. Will be a real game change and a limited field. Thus make both happy and player personality not necessary. We could even put the cage down on Fremont to capture the Circa overflow.

Me, I’ll be watching the produced and edited early days of ME with some non GTO personality. Be that some old school ballers or interesting recs. Sure they won’t likely win but who really cares.

i'm sorry man, but i know nothing of chess, so little that I'd be embarrassed to make a post talking about how we should setup a world series of chess

you know far less than even I do

lmfao

magnus is a multimillionaire and chess tournaments pay him over 50k per each day of his attendance

[ ] evidence

while there's a lot of similarities, chess doesn't include much in the way of luck, this leaves little room for cinderella stories, much like in chess competitions elsewhere, the top guys usually win, which is why you're idea is so incredibly dumb, because all but a few people know they are dead money and that's why there are open chess tournaments around the world and very few people enter

if you don't think so then escrow some money and offer some challenges to 2p2 and see how a very select few quickly take all your money away and then once you're done offering up cash the great 2p2 chess event magically dies because everyone knows who has an edge over whom and aren't willing to play for real money as a result

i love the idea of having tournament played in host cities and then once it makes the money everyone meets up in vegas. Money bubble shouldnt be an issue IMO, just have each location play down to 10-15% of the starting field, regardless of field size. So, for example LA gets 1,000 runners, top 100 make it to vegas. Buffalo (much smaller city) gets 90 runners, only 9 guys make it to vegas.

WSOP has to try something different, its been the same for 60 years. There is so much potential. How about a tourney with vloggers, somehow live non stop recording.... mystery bounty tourneys etc.

Just played poker with Jack McClellan this weekend he confirms that Ballys will be rebranded the Horseshoe hotel before the 2022 wsop. He made a point to correct me when I asked him his thoughts on the Ballys/Paris wsop and he said "you mean the horseshoe/Paris wsop?"

I'm not advocating strongly for anything one way or the other and I already acknowledged it's be very controversial and unlikely to happen.

For me, the most entertaining type of player to watch at the Main recently was George Holmes, notably because he was an amateur but also a strong player and not a total donk. He put one of the best professional players in the world, Aldemir, to the test in a ton of tough spots.

I also really enjoyed when Qui Nguyen won it. I don't think anyone would describe Aldemir or Nguyen as GTO robots given they had personalities and took many unconventional lines, however they would both get described as good players.

Now, both Ngyuen and Holmes would have lifetime qualified before the event although Holmes is a "main event specialist" who would qualify via a past main event cash but wouldn't have been able to play that first main event. And he's probably the archetype of who the qualification would originally prevent and make it a bad idea, although if he mincashed something smaller to get that initial Main Event cash then he'd be qualified for life.

The most "goofy rec" I remember having a deep run in the Main was John Hesp who would have qualified by these standards because he was cashing local $10 tourneys leading up to it. That's exactly the type of experience that made him interesting because he certainly had a rough idea what was going on. He was nowhere close to GTO, but also nowhere close to clueless.

I don't really remember any memorable WSOP moments from terrible recs early in the tournament. Most of the entertaining players have been poker players to some degree. Again, not suggesting that the qualification be some outlandish requirement just be a poker player.

But mostly overall it's a thought experiment because the complexity of even implementing it probably wouldn't be worth it and it'd be unclear how much it would even cull the field, probably not a ton since casinos would just do $5 hyper turbos to get people to qualify.

I hope the other Horseshoe casinos are nice with strong brand loyalty because that is an absolutely terrible name for a Vegas strip hotel/casino/resort.

Maybe try reading some data published after February 2020. If you do that and are still so risk averse to have this view, then I'm not sure how you'd get from McCarran to Bally's for fear of your cab crashing, or actually playing a hand for fear of your aces being cracked, and it might be safer just to play online instead

Binion's Horseshoe was where the original WSOPs were held. It was a pretty iconic Vegas brand. I have been to a number of Horseshoes travelling around and none of them are dumps, even when they are located in a bad area.

Why? Please elaborate.

First you realize my post was facetious? But if your qualifier is winning any $10 donkament anywhere in the world or min cashing in a $50 daily somewhere I don’t see an issue. Does the free roll I chopped 30 ways 11 years ago qualify me? I did cash.

TBH it was really 8 ways and only 7 years ago, but the point is the same. That was the last tournament I played. OTOH, if I was in LV during wsop and happened to have a big win at cash I might decide to take a YOLO shot at the main. I am at a point in my life I could do it if I wanted and I might with or without a big cash win. If I did, right now/today, would know what was going on though I would 99.98765% likely just be dead money but there is that chance. (In reality, should I decide to play the main i would play some local tournaments and probable a couple wsop other tournaments to prepare).

There are lots of players like me. Do you really want to preclude us? And you think doing so would grow the game?

At least for Vegas, the Horseshoe brand is significantly more valuable than the Bally's brand. Not only because Horseshoe is iconic but also because Bally's Las Vegas stands for mediocrity in every regards.

As far has having some kind of qualifier to play the main event, why would the WSOP ever want to lose 50+% of participants? Not only would that eliminate everyone who doesn't meet the qualifier but also everyone who can't sell enough action because the event isn't deemed soft enough anymore. If that happened a lot of serious players would also drop out because the main reason for them to play that event is the super soft field.

Also not sure about the chess stuff. The chess community lost interest in poker over a decade ago when it stopped being easy money. During the boom I don't think there was a single person under 30 in my chess club that didn't give poker a shot. Mainly because there's no money in chess unless you're one of the top pros.

I did read your sarcasm but I also read your underlying point that you don't like turning away the "one shot" super casual from the field.

Again my proposed standard was any mincash last 2 years or any 10k+ cash lifetime, so your freeroll 11 years ago would not qualify but a $50 daily the same year would. My whole point is that a rec who can at least make the money in a $50 tournament makes for a more interesting field than some rich guy from LA who barely knows hand rankings but has $10k. For example I know someone who works in entertainment who was basically "comped" a seat.

Turning away players sounds bad for growing the game but again my point is that getting Ivey, Negraneau, Hellmuth, or Doug Polk to the ME final table would be fantastic for the game but 6k+ runners is just so many people to get through. Less people and less table draw luck would help a bit.

I said I don't feel strongly about this idea and it's probably not actually good, however, something that I feel extremely strongly about is that the poker community needs to detach from the delusion there will be another Moneymaker boom. That level of public interest is just a once-in-universe type of thing, public attention is too fickle, and poker entering the mainstream to the same extent is about as likely as big band swing music hitting the Billboard top #10.

If you're trying to grow swing music dancing, you don't even try to get to Billboard top #10 you try to grow your niche not by appealing to everyone but by appealing to people who are disproportionally likely to be interested in swing dancing.

Simiiarly I always see suggestions to grow poker that look to appeal to every Tom Harry and Sally with the most normie marketing possible and I just don't see it working. On the other hand, I see platforms like Youtube and Twitch being amazing avenues to reach your niche audience and grow it. I don't see as many 20-somethings as during the boom but when you see one I bet you they know who Garrett Adelstein is because he's a Youtube star. I love any ideas of crossovers with things like chess, cryptocurrency, league of legends, magic the gathering etc because those are also niches that will highly correlate with interest in poker. I agree with the other commenter that the best possible rec at a Main Event final table would not be Vince Vaughn but be Alexandra Botez or Hikaru Nakamura (popular Chess streamers).

I do recognize there's a tiny bit of friction between "poker as a serious strategy game" and "poker as an old time gambling game, with eccentric characters smoking cigars." I do acknowledge that's a tough balance to strike and the eccentric personalities are great. I'm just brainstorming out loud in the 2p2 thread because of course I'd love to see poker grow as well but I think people are trying to force super normie stuff and pray it becomes 2005 again rather than think more strategically about who to reach and how, especially in a day where there's more competition for attention than ever.

Name one good reason why someone with good intentions would want to know if a stranger was carrying a gun (in your scenario).

Do you understand now?

We can disagree on whether it's desirable or not to cull the field, but you're agreeing with my point that the most prestigious tournament poker in the world has some of the worst competition. To me that's totally backwards.

Bally's is a completely different gaming company so I understand changing the name. However it seems like you'd have to be pretty damn old to recognize or care that that Binions Horseshoe was where the WSOP first took place, and even then only a small subset of casino goers care about poker.

It just seems weird to use an old brand like that symbolic of gambling when that's not what Vegas is all about now. Perhaps they simply want to elevate the brand of their other Horseshoe casinos.

I'm ok with the main event being left alone, but the focus should be to elevate a smaller field event to be the premium televised event. You shrink the field simply by increasing the buy-in.

With a smaller field it's much easier to elevate the brands of individual players. You follow around like 10 of the players with cameras in the days leading up to the event. Fans get to know these players on a more personal level and become emotionally invested in them.

The event itself should be presented like no other poker product. This could be achieved with things like player introductions, premium looking sets/tables, special use of lighting and/or sound (ala who wants to be a millionaire as a simple example).

The game itself should be entertaining. Ie high paced, high pressure, and lots of action relative to what we typically see in events. This means a change in format and rules.

Many top players are robotic in game, which is why it's so important that there should be focus on making the game itself more exciting. Preflop decisions should be made in under 5 seconds. Postflop, not much longer than that. They get some critical time extensions but not many. The game should be a format that rewards players for being more LAG than TAG. These players that are boring robots today could be incredible machines tomorrow making sick bluffs and insane calls in high pressure situations.

How high do you want to go with the buy-in? 100 million? There’s already a 1mil event that not too many people care about.

And most importantly, half the field in that event wouldn’t even be remotely interested in your suggested presentation. That would obviously change if there was a couple million added to the price pool but nobody would pay for that.

A 1 million freeroll for 9 big name social media / YouTube personalities would be way cheaper and gather much more attention.

They should also add something like the 72 game and have 3 blinds instead of 2 and the shortest stack at the end of every level being eliminated.