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Old 11-16-2009, 09:36 PM   #76
Kyle Million
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Re: A Word To The Wise

I think everyone got hung up on the example used. The "Word to the wise" wasn't about the actual video. The video was used as an example to show you what to look for.

Thank you for taking your time to point this out and I'll be on the look out at lives games going forward.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:40 PM   #77
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO View Post
That is why I said he just made a bad error in using terrible technique here.
Apparently it's not a terrible technique. Its a cheaters technique. There is a difference.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:42 PM   #78
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Apparently it's not a terrible technique. Its a cheaters technique. There is a difference.
lol so anytime a dealer scoops a bundle of chips into his hand he is cheating/stealing? interesting.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:48 PM   #79
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by LVpokerPRO View Post
lol so anytime a dealer scoops a bundle of chips into his hand he is cheating/stealing? interesting.
No, you still don't get it, the whole gist is that this is a technique used by cheaters, for someone who calls themselves a LVpokerPRO, you should understand that no one said mistakes can't be made, but this is a very very common cheating technique.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:51 PM   #80
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Re: A Word To The Wise

Post more gambling/hustler stories Toupee Jay.
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Old 11-16-2009, 09:55 PM   #81
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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lol so anytime a dealer scoops a bundle of chips into his hand he is cheating/stealing? interesting.
Not what I said.

I'm saying that handling chips this way is not a product of bad form, bad training, or laziness. It is a deliberate move used for a specific purpose by cheaters. However, just because chips are handled that way, doesn't mean a chip is being palmed every time. It is likely that cheating dealers handle the chips the same way every time, but pick their spots to make a move. (Very similar to poker.)

So no, when you see a dealer scoop chips like that, you can't assume he just palmed one. You can, however, assume that dealer has experience doing it. Now, he might be a recreational magician or weekend cheater and just handles chips like this out of habit, but we should all be aware of his skill and remain cautious.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:18 PM   #82
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Re: A Word To The Wise

I don't get all the rippin on Jay in this thread. A player in Bobby's room caught a dealer doing this this year. They can do it to 1K chips, 5K + have RFID chips in the chips now.

So what about TV cameras, casinos have lots of cameras and the people who watch those tapes are trained pros, not Joe 6pack poker fans.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:28 PM   #83
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Re: A Word To The Wise

I was just informed of this thread and thought I'd give you all my comments. I work on the show and know the dealer in this clip personally.

Most of what I wanted to say has already been said in this thread. It's poor technique, unacceptable, whatever you'd like to call it. But I'd be willing to bet a large amount of money that that's where it ends. The dealer is a close family friend of the production company that produces High Stakes Poker, and he wouldn't be risking his job, let alone his personal relationships, to palm a few bucks. Do I have proof of this? No, but I know the dealer's character, and I just don't see that happening. I'm not trying to prove anything, just informing the group of what I know about the dealer in this case.

To answer someone else's question about how the show works... the players are responsible for their own money. The table is under constant surveillance -- more so than a regular poker game. On top of casino security, a floorman is nearby supervising, and a staff of about 50 people making the show are constantly watching. While it is not inconceivable that a dealer COULD steal from the pot, it is highly unlikely.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:31 PM   #84
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by Koshur View Post
Post more gambling/hustler stories Toupee Jay.
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 yes.
I wish we had a read-only "Old Vegas Stories" forum where the only people allowed to post were guys like ToupeeJay, RayZee, etc- basically, anyone who Sklansky or Malmuth could verify were regs during the old days of LV and were willing to ship the stories. Any kind of stories. Pool, cards, pit games, props, wild nights with hookers and blow, whatever.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:49 PM   #85
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by veeRob View Post
The dealer is a close family friend of the production company that produces High Stakes Poker, and he wouldn't be risking his job, let alone his personal relationships, to palm a few bucks. Do I have proof of this? No, but I know the dealer's character, and I just don't see that happening. I'm not trying to prove anything, just informing the group of what I know about the dealer in this case.
We've heard variations on this theme about 100 times on this board when somebody has been guilty of something really stupid.

So... whatever. Not saying your buddy did anything at all, but your assurances are virtually useless, I'm afraid.
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Old 11-16-2009, 10:53 PM   #86
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by Watchmaker View Post
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 yes.
I wish we had a read-only "Old Vegas Stories" forum where the only people allowed to post were guys like ToupeeJay, RayZee, etc- basically, anyone who Sklansky or Malmuth could verify were regs during the old days of LV and were willing to ship the stories. Any kind of stories. Pool, cards, pit games, props, wild nights with hookers and blow, whatever.


indeed. johnny hughes can mod the place
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:11 PM   #87
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Do you honestly think someone would be stupid enough...
If you actually read about the world every day, sooner or later you will learn that the answer to any question that begins with the above phrase is "Yes".
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Old 11-16-2009, 11:33 PM   #88
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Re: A Word To The Wise

Paging RussG...
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:05 AM   #89
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by _UM View Post
I'm used to be pool player turned poker player from out east. We may have met in the pool world when I was really young as that's when I was really playing but that was in the 90's so Im not 100% sure being from opposite coasts. Anyways I will Pm you my name.
ever play danny green from bmore?
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Old 11-17-2009, 12:21 AM   #90
Bizarro George
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by pineapple888 View Post
We've heard variations on this theme about 100 times on this board when somebody has been guilty of something really stupid.

So... whatever. Not saying your buddy did anything at all, but your assurances are virtually useless, I'm afraid.
Yay! Glad to see it's still innocent until proven guilty by some guy watching a video and posting about it in a poker forum.

I have no idea if the dealer did or did not and honestly I don't even care. It does amuse me however to watch everyone posture and act as if they KNOW with 100% certainty what happened.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:00 AM   #91
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Re: A Word To The Wise

Thread has been informative. Thanks for the alerts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watchmaker View Post
+1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 yes.
I wish we had a read-only "Old Vegas Stories" forum where the only people allowed to post were guys like ToupeeJay, RayZee, etc- basically, anyone who Sklansky or Malmuth could verify were regs during the old days of LV and were willing to ship the stories. Any kind of stories. Pool, cards, pit games, props, wild nights with hookers and blow, whatever.
Now there's an idea.
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:03 AM   #92
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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At some point "street smarts" crosses over into insane paranoia. When you think that a dealer on national television is palming chips you have crossed that line.

I'm sure dealers palm chips at some non-negligible rate, and this might be a good lesson in what to look for at the table, but if you really think there was theft going on here give your head a shake.

P.S. 9/11 was not an inside job.
still "always wrong"
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:05 AM   #93
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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FWIW I know the OP in real life. He's a super cool dude so to sit here and insult him when he's just offering a simple heads up is kinda weak-sauce imo. Don't people have better things to do than sit on the internet insulting people that are only trying to help them out? Apparently not!!
welcome to 2p2. it used to be smart gamblers talking to each other, now its 12 yr. olds talking over smart gamblers who are trying to talk to each other
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Old 11-17-2009, 02:14 AM   #94
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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If you take money from Jamie Gold is it still considered stealing?
Dealer: "He said it was a Tip Tip!"
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:33 AM   #95
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by Toupee Jay View Post
I agree with you about 9/11.

"Insane paranoia." Really! I don't lose any sleep over this stuff. I just know that it happens. That's not insanity my friend, it's reality. You are probably one of those guys who never thought they would be cheating on the inside with online poker. I mean, why would they do that when they are already making all that money? It would be insane to believe that could happen!

Did you say you were always wrong? Wonder why?



i was an early proponent of the idea that cheating was going on with AP/UB, and i dont think it's especially likely that the dealer here was stealing.

the situations arent comparable.

i'd put it at around 70/30 in favor of not stealing at this point. it would just be so completely insane for someone to attempt it while being taped, especially if it's a well known trick.

i will have to watch out for dealers doing this in the future, so thanks for the heads up.
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Old 11-17-2009, 03:45 AM   #96
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Re: A Word To The Wise

Who knows whether the guy stole a chip or not but I appreciate this thread as that definitely looks shady and I never realized how easy it would prob be to steal money off the table as a dealer. Seem especially shady with the stakes they are playing and how sloppy he is handling the chips.
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Old 11-17-2009, 05:56 AM   #97
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Re: A Word To The Wise

Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt Williams View Post
Fascinating thread. I can't believe idiots are ragging on Toupee. If you look at the last second of the hand, you can even see the dealer "struggling" with the chips. I really would like if Barry Greenstein checked this out.
Your opponents can collude or mark the cards. Dealers can run up a deck and be in with a player. And chips may get stolen from the pot.

It's all possible and all of it has happened to me. Obviously, I only know the times I've caught it. I think this dealer was just struggling with scooping in cash and chips at the same time, something that doesn't happen in our games except on HSP.

It's far-fetched to believe the dealer would steal under these circumstances, but on the other hand, you can be assured that you will run across several people with schemes to steal your money over the course of a long poker career. It's probably more important to know who you're dealing with, than to expect protection from correct technique. Of course you should insist on correct technique, but that is little assurance that someone who is out to get you will not find a way.

Barry
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:12 AM   #98
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Re: A Word To The Wise

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Originally Posted by bugman68 View Post
ever play danny green from bmore?
hmmm, I don't think so. The only time I was thru Baltimore was on my way to florida and we only stayed there for a night or 2 at most. I think jack and Jills was the spot then but I think the action had kinda died down by the time we got there. This was in the early 90's.

If you guys do a thread about road stories I would be more than happy to contribute. I don't have any from the old days exacatly(still in my early 30's), I'll leave that to Jay and the others mentioned, but I do have some pretty good road/pool/poker/vegas/etc stories.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:22 AM   #99
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Re: A Word To The Wise

I have been doing a long interview via email with a man with the absolute top knowledge of cheating. I know a great deal about it also, but I never cheat. The dealer is doing a move, but may not steal a thing. If you have a move, you do it the same way whether you are stealing or not. This move would work with "chip cop" a sticky substance you put on the palm where you just hit the chip, it sticks. You might work all night with the move, then apply the substance right as your shift is about up.

When I was a teenager, the ultimate road gambler showed me all the moves and all the cheating devices in his magic closet. Crooked dice..six-ace flats, loads, edge work and all manner of marked cards. Hold out machine, used only once because it make a sound. It is fishing line, plastic levers, worn under the coat, cost 500 bucks.

If someone moves their hand funny, or ROLLS THAT DECK OVER, they are getting ready to cheat if everything is right. His cocktail waitress spills a drink, he goes south with some black chips. You won't see card manipulation cheating often. You probably won't see a cold deck. I caught Tommy Thomas, son of Titanic Thompson, holding out. He had thrown a cooler that I did not catch, but suspected.

I am researching and writing about gambling full time, and love it, especially the books about the old days. There is not enough attention to cheating. The generation that knew about that is almost gone.

Last edited by Johnny Hughes; 11-17-2009 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 11-17-2009, 06:39 AM   #100
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Re: A Word To The Wise

Try this. If you roll the deck over, you can squeeze up the top two cards and peek. A blackjack dealer picks up the discards and has a five on the bottom. Then if he needs it, he puts his right arm out to straigten up something as a screen while his left hand rolls over the deck and he gets his five. He can have a face down there to bust out a big better taking a hit.
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