A wise animated character once taught me something profound about the way the world works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nEs2a82ZjYA

Well nvg is full of tards who couldn't make it in poker and are bitter.

well since I seem to one of the few arguing the other side of this. firstly I don't wish harm on anyone and do feel bad that many will have their online poker rug pulled out from under them.

the main argument against these changes seems to be "this sucks... I will make less money and stars will make more , they are greedy bastards".

That's more of a whine then any sort of argument.

They only valid argument I have seen is Anski's point about changing a 24month SNE program after 10 months. This is probably within Stars' LEGAL right as part of TOS of those programs, but its a horrible way to treat any customer (even ones they apparently don't want anymore), and complaints about that have serious merit.

Other than the fact that you will now make less money and stars will make more, what is your argument against these changes?

I have been SNE for the past 3 years and indeed I get royally screwed by the 24 month status being changed midterm. Other than that, my argument is that I truly believe that these changes will kill all action above 400 stakes, which cannot be good for poker longterm. Regs are the ones who create the games, recs will very seldom just sit randomly on an empty table. Without the VIP program, there is basically no incentive for regs vs regs action. I also think these changes will kill all zoom action above NL200, which cannot possibly be good for poker. I honestly think that Amaya will lose more than they will win with these changes longterm. Rake at 1c/2c is slow to come by.

Only time will tell but one thing I dont understand for sure is how people can be happy with getting less $ at the end of the year than they received previously. This applies to everyone except for chromestars. To me this is just pure jealousy from losing/low volume players who prefer to see the high volume players lose a ton of $ even if they have to themselves lose some $.

As a non-Stars employee what is your plan for Amaya to pay off its 2.6 billion dollars in junk bonds given that the company's revenue is less than 1.3 billion per year?

If you have a better plan to raise revenue and pay off 2.6 billion in debt I'm sure they'd be glad if you'd share it with them.

Btw, as in all other businesses, I am aware that Stars can do whatever they want and the customer can decide whether they want to give them their business or not. I am hoping that all the regs give a strong message from January 1 and stop creating any sort of action.

OK, now you are speaking in terms that sites will understand and care about (take note Killingsit).

Since I am in US, I am not able to assess if what you say is probable or not.

For sake of discussion, lets take your first comment and agree you are correct about killing all action above NL400, and that's exactly what happens.

Could anyone estimate revenue that would be lost either in estimated real dollars or % of total revenue?

Even if those games dried up and never ran, would they lose all those players and their deposits or would some just go down in level in play next best thing that was available?

P. S. the SNE mid-term change is really bad form. If Stars doesn't fix that, all those players have legit beef that needs to be and should be aired. But most of the players are mixing that problem in with the other changes (which are not legit beefs imo) so that message is getting muted.

Thread title should be ... "Stars promised SNEs XYZ at the beginning of 2015, we did our part, Stars did not deliver at the end of 2015"

The NFL actually has a policy of parity. The revenue sharing and salary cap actually permits teams with smaller markets, smaller stadiums, to compete against the wealthier teams. Green Bay receives a much larger share of the TV revenue than it "deserves" based on its TV mkt share. But the system permits the league to prosper, it has surpassed MLB, as the most popular American sport precisely because it has artificially leveled the playing field.

The NFL is a prime example of socialism working.

That is essentially what occurs. The PGA sets strict rules for what type of clubs, balls and other equipment are permissible. There are many technological advances that could be employed to make the game easier but which are prohibited by the PGA.

By making the game the same regardless of one's financial or technological resources, it permits the tour to reward those players that possess "pure golf skills" not engineering skills for example.

Here you are mixing apples and oranges. Again, the NFL has a redistribution system and the more profitable teams actually subsidize the less profitable teams. All leagues have introduced a salary cap to some extent. So, a team is rewarded if it invests in certain technologies, but the ability to invest in those is available to all NFL teams because of the revenue sharing model.

The goal of a government is to ensure that all players have access to the same resources in order to grow. The Intellectual property laws specifically require the inventor to share and employ his invention in order to receive some IP protection. The goal is not to simply reward the inventor, but to force inventors to share the technology and allows others to alter it, improve it, use it and copy it under certain circumstances.

So, the issue with online poker is that the technological advantages of the top players creates a severe imbalance. The poker rooms are not in business to give a select few with programming and mathematical skills, a platform in which they can fleece unsuspecting players. The goal is to make the poker table or "playing field" as equal as possible within the rules of poker. In live poker we do not permit players to bring technology that permits them to see the hole cards of other players, or to play multiple tables at the same time. Online poker should be no different.

Sure, some software aids should be permitted and some multi-tabling , but the poker economy just like the NFL economy or the World economy needs to be managed in a way that levels the playing field, and mitigates the advantages of certain market players. This is what governments and league officials do and what Adam Smith outlined.

You fundamentally misunderstand the notion of a free market economy and what factors make it function. Anti-trust law, IP law and government in general is created in order to protect the rights of all participants. If the govt didn't enforce contracts, break-up monopolies and regulate IP, very few market players would dominate and exploit all the others. This is a necessary consequence of a pure a free market. Hence, "pure free markets" do not work. Game theory implicitly reflects this truth.

Thus, regulation of the poker economy is needed and required in order to grow online poker.

P.S. I am not commenting on or endorsing PS's recent changes to SNE. The little that I know about the issue, a change in the middle of the year seems to be patently unfair.

The NFL actually has a policy of parity. The revenue sharing and salary cap actually permits teams with smaller markets, smaller stadiums, to compete against the wealthier teams. Green Bay receives a much larger share of the TV revenue than it "deserves" based on its TV mkt share. But the system permits the league to prosper, it has surpassed MLB, as the most popular American sport precisely because it has artificially leveled the playing field.

The NFL is a prime example of socialism working.

That is essentially what occurs. The PGA sets strict rules for what type of clubs, balls and other equipment are permissible. There are many technological advances that could be employed to make the game easier but which are prohibited by the PGA.

By making the game the same regardless of one's financial or technological resources, it permits the tour to reward those players that possess "pure golf skills" not engineering skills for example.

Here you are mixing apples and oranges. Again, the NFL has a redistribution system and the more profitable teams actually subsidize the less profitable teams. All leagues have introduced a salary cap to some extent. So, a team is rewarded if it invests in certain technologies, but the ability to invest in those is available to all NFL teams because of the revenue sharing model.

The goal of a government is to ensure that all players have access to the same resources in order to grow. The Intellectual property laws specifically require the inventor to share and employ his invention in order to receive some IP protection. The goal is not to simply reward the inventor, but to force inventors to share the technology and allows others to alter it, improve it, use it and copy it under certain circumstances.

So, the issue with online poker is that the technological advantages of the top players creates a severe imbalance. The poker rooms are not in business to give a select few with programming and mathematical skills, a platform in which they can fleece unsuspecting players. The goal is to make the poker table or "playing field" as equal as possible within the rules of poker. In live poker we do not permit players to bring technology that permits them to see the hole cards of other players, or to play multiple tables at the same time. Online poker should be no different.

Sure, some software aids should be permitted and some multi-tabling , but the poker economy just like the NFL economy or the World economy needs to be managed in a way that levels the playing field, and mitigates the advantages of certain market players. This is what governments and league officials do and what Adam Smith outlined.

You fundamentally misunderstand the notion of a free market economy and what factors make it function. Anti-trust law, IP law and government in general is created in order to protect the rights of all participants. If the govt didn't enforce contracts, break-up monopolies and regulate IP, very few market players would dominate and exploit all the others. This is a necessary consequence of a pure a free market. Hence, "pure free markets" do not work. Game theory implicitly reflects this truth.

Thus, regulation of the poker economy is needed and required in order to grow online poker.

That's good that you apply your logic only to technology when golf is a sport where you pay a guy to tell you which club to use and which shot to hit and since you draw the line where it meets the opinion you already have you can safely ignore it.

I guess if I'm a new player on the tour then I don't have to worry about paying $442,548 to my real-time advisor/hand chart dude since the PGA levels the playing field, right?

http://www.forbes.com/2007/06/08/cad...0611caddy.html

Bad analogy.

The word is segregation and lack of proper poker marketing (ie no good non-tournament poker tv shows)

conlaw you keep talking about NFL, but I can't argue because I don't follow that sport.

But the other points you made were awful... the top top PRO golfers have access to technology that most of the other non top don't! Ofcourse you have to obey to a set of rules, but that is in everything!

Think about football.. what do you think is always the same teams winning the national league?

Guess why? Because they have better infrastructures, technology etc...

You mention people that have mathematical skills shouldn't be allowed to use it? LOL, poker is open to everybody that is willing to LEARN and GET BETTER. The stuff is out there, if you want to play it recreationally it's ur choice! I play recreationally sports betting, I don't want to know how the technical stuff works.. I just want to bet! Same with poker.


POKER IS A GAME, SO THERE ARE WINNERS AND LOSERS. THE STUFF TO BE GOOD AT POKER IS OUT THERE, either you want to be good or not! it's your choice.

I didn't have any poker friends when i started, i did everything on my own because I wanted to be good at this game.

Next step on this ecosystem stuff is:

Regs have to softplay vs certain fish -> by your logic that would be reasonable

Lol at the delusional self serving OP getting his azz handed to him ITT.

Sorry u cant make enough money at rakeback to avoid getting a job anymore

Your next step. Learn to actually win at poker or go flip burgers