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Old 03-26-2014, 04:01 AM   #1
smokybacon
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Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

You hear of all these supposedly great tournament players who have millions of dollars in tournament winnings. But when you take away the sponsorships, the staking, all the hotel and travel costs, how many of these players would be in profit? Not just some profit, enough profit to making a living off. I remember reading somewhere that it's near enough impossible to make a living as a live MTT pro when you take away all the sponsor money and staking that these pros get. All the big names we hear on the live tournament circuit would be nobodies. Is this true? What is the ROI of all these players? We never hear of their ROI, only their winnings. Business success is measured on profit, not on revenue. It is useless to have revenue of 10 million if your costs are 20 million.
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:19 AM   #2
The4thFilm
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Of course not. How big of an edge can you have at 20 BB? And they don't run on a schedule where you can play 2000 hours a year at worthwhile buyins. Add in travel costs and hotels and there is no chance.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:20 AM   #3
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

Move to vegas and only play there, buy a caravan to live in, and have +500 average buy-ins. Then, I could imagine that it could be possible, if you are really good and live a humble life... in Vegas...

Last edited by TooRareToDie; 03-26-2014 at 05:22 AM. Reason: I honestly have no clue, just bored before starting my session online
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:39 AM   #4
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

If you become a total sicko at winning Satellite packages online, and making the money in Live tournaments. Of cause it is.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:50 AM   #5
0.10$ warrior
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

you can if you're already a millionaire
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Old 03-26-2014, 04:54 PM   #6
Rich123
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

I am sure some can. And I am also pretty sure that most of those whoe are capable chose not to.
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Old 03-26-2014, 05:00 PM   #7
Brilliant27
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

Playing live mtts exclusively, for your sole income, must be a sick way to live. And by sick, I don't mean good sick.
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Old 03-26-2014, 09:27 PM   #8
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokybacon View Post
I remember reading somewhere that it's near enough impossible to make a living as a live MTT pro
This can be confirmed independently... by thinking about it.

Or you could just read some of the (many) other threads on this subject:

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...ments-1418454/

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/29...poker-1223145/
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:31 AM   #9
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

. Its possible to make a living playing live MTTs. Where you live has a lot to do with it. For instance i live in minnesota. We have 2 dedicated cardrooms in state and 3 casinos that offer low buy in weekly tournments. Knowing which room offers on any given day raises an average players ev enough to where they can be profitable ( not make a living) A good player can make an exceptional increase to there standard of living by playing softest weekend tournaments. The elite players do make a living playing local mtts only. Atm i know of 3 people in minnesota doing this and considering our limited options a state like nevada has to have a couple hundred. Bottom line is it possible yes. Should you make the attempt probably not.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:40 AM   #10
AllBlackDan
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If you're lucky, yes
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:51 AM   #11
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

This has never been discussed before. So don't use the search function to find dozens of threads on this exact topic, because you wont find any.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:59 AM   #12
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

the actual answer to this question is no
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:01 AM   #13
sb77
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

all you need is 1 ept/wpt/wsop (nl tourneys +bigger events) to have a big step to def being comfortable for life.

grinding smaller events like less than $4/500 its prob poss to make a living suppose but maths / surveys etc say not

jus gotta win dem flips suppose?
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:45 AM   #14
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

http://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comment...arning_female/

Upper level elite and 1/3rd spent on just buy-ins....

Quote:
Without going into specifics, I will say that I've run decently well with respect to having a substantial amount of myself when I binked big and have not been backed for any of my big scores, though I have swapped and sold pieces in some of them. I play much less than most pros as I value quality of life more than playing all the time... I would say I've probably spent somewhere between $1.5MM and $2MM in my life in buyins. After buyins, travel expenses (which are pretty costly), and taxes, I definitely have nowhere near that $7M stat that I've made from tournaments in my actual possession
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Old 03-27-2014, 01:56 AM   #15
limon
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokybacon View Post
You hear of all these supposedly great tournament players who have millions of dollars in tournament winnings. But when you take away the sponsorships, the staking, all the hotel and travel costs, how many of these players would be in profit? Not just some profit, enough profit to making a living off. I remember reading somewhere that it's near enough impossible to make a living as a live MTT pro when you take away all the sponsor money and staking that these pros get. All the big names we hear on the live tournament circuit would be nobodies. Is this true? What is the ROI of all these players? We never hear of their ROI, only their winnings. Business success is measured on profit, not on revenue. It is useless to have revenue of 10 million if your costs are 20 million.
this thread is awesome because when i started saying there was no such thing as a live tournament pro (back in 2006) i was attacked mercilessly by the nutsucker fanboi 2p2 braintrust and now, almost a decade later, its common knowledge.

heres the next step; we need to actively get recreational players (aka pro wannabes. aka pro thinktheyares) to STOP playing tournaments and see them as scams for losers. This is the MOST important factor in maintaining poker as a viable profession.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:07 AM   #16
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At least 2000 players in the world have the ability to run a high enough ROI to do this.

So is it possible? Definitely.

The issue comes down to how many have the bankroll and discipline to make a consistent living doing it. Not many, but there are a handful who do. (Ari Engel, Allen Kessler, come to mind as good examples.)

So it is obviously doable, it is just fairly difficult.
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Old 03-27-2014, 07:18 AM   #17
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Yes if you run deep in a few, no if you don't.
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Old 03-27-2014, 12:27 PM   #18
pscewok
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

Yes, head out to your next local WSOPC event and you will see plenty of young guys who travel the "circuit" for a living.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:06 PM   #19
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pscewok View Post
Yes, head out to your next local WSOPC event and you will see plenty of young guys who travel the "circuit" for a living.
True,but a lot of these guys don't pay all their bills or have bills in general.

When they are off the road, they are in Mom's basement. Mom's stores their car (that they paid for) Insurance is under parents, both Health and Car. Cell phones paid for etc.

Is it possible to make a living, Yes! You will have to reduce variance with a little bit of cash, sure the top 1% can only do MTT's, but to say all the kids traveling the circuit are doing well is a little skewed due to them not having bills to pay or a permanent address to pay for.
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Old 03-27-2014, 02:11 PM   #20
chzbrglr
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

ffs, just learn how to play cash games too
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:55 PM   #21
Turbulenc3
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

No. Travel costs too high, not enough volume.
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Old 03-27-2014, 05:59 PM   #22
SNGplayer24
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

most live mtt pros aren't too good at poker and while they might make a "living" I doubt its anything substantial......I'd be shocked if any of these live guys(outside the elites) average over 100k/yr for 3+ years
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Old 03-27-2014, 06:46 PM   #23
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

yeah but you need to start with millions, and you might not realize that you can't cut it until you're broke

gl
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Old 03-27-2014, 09:46 PM   #24
JohnnyIllini
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

Another HUGE problem if you're located in the US is the tax issues. All MTT players will experience a large degree of variance from year to year. However, you get taxed fully on the years that you bink, while covering your entire nut on your own on the years that you don't.
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Old 03-28-2014, 10:05 AM   #25
David Lyons
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Re: Without sponsorships, is it possible to make a living as a live MTT pro?

You can definitely be a millionaire after playing a few years live MTTs.

Step 1: Be a billionaire
Step 2: Play a bunch of MTTs
Step 3: Be a millionaire
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