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Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s?

09-23-2023 , 01:19 PM
https://****************.wordpress.c.../the-4th-wave/

^^^ mods should unban the phrase 'the wealth of chips' its not a scary thing. Its just an ode to Adam Smith who was instrumental in our insights.

Poker, or gambling, already had a post moneymaker boom, a post friday wave boom. Ideal Poker and **************** forsaw the coming "Poker Currency" and the evolutions it might bring to the game and since then a whole new shadow industry has evolved. Much of they effects of digital currency payment networks hasn't been realized yet.. Poker is still very limited and controlled from the players perspective. It represents a world in which humans haven't attainted a level of basic and proper freedoms.

The original source code to bitcoin had a poker site baked into the code.
And Satoshi Dice a bitcoin gambling site was instrumental in its bootstrap. Cypherpoker, a generalization and implementation Nash's proposal Ideal Money, provides very special cryptographic protocols Nick Szabo calls 'god protocols'. Cyhperpoker allows anyone to be a site ,and anyone to make any create game OR DECK etc choices they want and to test them with the global player pool.

For free. The creator left and the code is open source.

Poker has allows functioned on and in parallels with the cusp of the evolution of our laws (ie Mississippi steam boats outside US land jurisdiction). It is a SPECIAL game for this. Its not dying, its evolving.

From Colonial Lotteries to Satoshi Dice: The 4th and 5th Wave of Gambling is Upon Us
Spoiler:

(Are we on the edge of the 4th gambling wave?)

The history of gambling in the United States has been studied, analyzed, and well documented in terms of its legal history but seemingly never in relation to overall national or global economic conditions, nor in relation to the newly proposed Kula Ring solution by Nick Szabo and John Nash’s lectures “Ideal Money”.

I Nelson Rose coined the concept of 3 waves starting with the Colonial lotteries, moving across WW1 and WWII prohibition and other movements, and the resurgence afterwards of destinations such as Las Vegas and Atlantic City. Rose predicts a total abolition after the 3rd wave, however, by using the theory of the Kula Ring we have shown that the morality of gambling is highly related to the overall underlying economic conditions and therefore quite predictable and not necessarily doomed by pattern or intrinsic fault.

Somewhat contrary to (or more specifically than) Roses’s explanation, historical gambling used as socialist and government type funding of ventures has ended in disaster and created avarice towards the industry while gambling created by worthy private investors with a long term plan has helped our society gain leaps and bounds in the field of technology (specifically but not confined to financial networks and transportation). We propose in the near future gambling will help propel space travel and bio tech fields and proper well constructed regulation and laws could pave the way to expedite this process. Among other points we also suggest a strong and stable global gaming environment is essential for the liberation and self governance of our civilization.
Lastly, and possibly most importantly, decentralization plays an integral role in our analysis and conclusions: we foresee giant industry moguls such as Sheldon Adelson and Steve Wynn will soon pave the way for the Nakamoto Consensus decentralized ID system by providing our civilization with next frontiers of Casino Resort/Online gambling ventures.

Certain economic “triumphs” have had a dramatic impact on the overall average value of our global economy[1]. For example completion of the first transcontinental railroad harnessed economic potential from the cost of transportation saved by not having to traverse the panama canal or sail around South America[2]. Although the exact variables are slightly different, it can be seen that the potential value is accessed by the completion of a type of Kula Ring, a solution proposed by Nick Szabo[3]. By relating the economic potential of the first transcontinental railroad to the Kula Ring solution we can start to understand this type of economic potential functions much like a potential energy or electricity not usable until “plugged” or “wired” into the existing larger economy-thus the railway for example and many other of these projects completed a type of economic electrical circuit[4]. Like electrical energy or any other type of energy this potential can be used for low cost high-output or it can be used archaically like lighting a propane BBQ with a stray electrical wire. The value gained from such giant connections at the cusp of our economic expansion is exponential[5] and therefore can generally be expected to propel humanity into a new age.

The drive for advancement in such fields as physical transportation or communication network transportation (which we might call transactions but are really also examples of physical transportation) comes from the inherent value gained from reaching new levels of technology or new frontiers (whether in the physical or “software” realm)[6].

These are points not previously accepted or presented until Nick Szabo’s papers were published as far as this author knows and understands.

Society or civilization naturally “gravitates” towards unleashing this potential by way of the invisible hand, whether from the faults or ideals of one man‘s army, individual wealthy businessman‘s ventures, or the different collective lottery’s of mankind’s cooperative social efforts. Generally it is often some combination of all of these with the least efficient and most wasteful of all being government taxation and social welfare programs[7].

“Gambling” has helped mankind reach some of these goals and complete large and significant Kula Rings by allowing investors to fund different ventures with casino based projects that create a sustainable infrastructure where other ventures are not as likely to thrive to the point of a needed self-sustainable threshold. The perceived morality of “Casinos” and “gambling” in general is typically related to the economic events associated with the corresponding times. In bad economic times gambling is often the first and biggest scapegoat since it develops and loses its political power (money) so rapidly. We can compare this observation with the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd waves of gambling in the history of the US versus different economic events. It is not correct to say then that gambling is possibly inherently bad, but instead that the economy of the world and the US has been slowly amassing a growing army of political and economic force that will eventually break its nationalistic and even global structure in order to pursue interests beyond the previously perceived limitations and particularly beyond the physical earth.

Casinos and gambling seems to have played a specific role in projects such as railroads and other important infrastructure which has helped expand and connect different societies and their economies. Let us not forget about the Chinese and Asian populations that were able to escape their own poverty and harsh government forces, by helping to complete the Kula ring in the form of the western side of the railway expansion[8]. No doubt gambling played a prominent role here[9] whether in a useful form of funding privatized ventures or wasteful form of funding centralized power structures. It is not gambling that has its’ own inherent morality either good or bad, but rather how our society uses it which ultimately decides its moral nature. The great mistake has been analyzing the morality of gambling solely through the history of public’s opinion on it and not by understanding the underlying economic effects with respect to implications of the Kula Ring concept[10].

As we progress to higher and higher levels of technology so too does our standard of living rise for the average citizen of this world. As the average life expectancy increases, humanity will develop a longer and longer outlook on “life”. This will affect behaviors (ie healthier lifestyles), politicians platforms, government policies (foreign and domestic), economics and finance, and many other aspects of our society and individual persons’ behaviors and orientations. As we see and record this phenomenon we begin to understand the atrocities of the past were not born or caused by intrinsic evil but instead the natural effects of an archaic technological battlefield of evolution that did in fact, in the long term, obviously trend towards bringing about a cohesive cooperative moral functioning and free (in the “liberty” sense) civilization, which will eventually be ready and willing to conquer and discover the largest extent of the universe possible (the author uses a finite metaphor of the universe in this context for “convenience” only).

The worst atrocities of man and life, and the times of least liberty and least freedoms came not from the evilest wishes of certain elite groups or individuals but rather from the centralization or pooling of a type of “power” that we might not yet have named or understood in our society. This power, we often refer to as money or political sway, not being fully understood by general mankind became a type of new age religious belief in the mind of the common and individual person. The truth of this is revealed when we view events throughout mankind’s history from a perspective of decentralization versus centralization[11].

Not understanding this is akin to a novice poker player trying to make a living in an over raked game full of sharks[12] or to a self professed “professional” slot machine player destined for disaster but full of faith and hope. Neurosis is sure to result of which logic is to be the obvious and only true cure. Not understanding this underlying explanation of our civilizations’ overall direction has caused a great psychological sickness in our collective consciousnesses. This sickness is not different than the crazed hamster that eventually began to receive random shocks in its’ pursuit of a new food pellet by the way of pressing the only button available to the creature (which did at some time, and seemingly does at other times bring food from the pressing of the button)[13]. By viewing the problem from a perspective that “appears” to give random outputs we increasingly grew a religious belief about the “seemingly” arbitrary nature of inputs.

This writing seeks to point out by the way of Nick Szabo, John Nash, Adam Smith, and the author here, that the different economic inputs do NOT in fact produce random and trivial outputs, and furthermore because of observations from Nash, Smith, and Szabo we are able to alleviate certain psychosomatic symptoms by identifying (and therefore dispelling) predominate “religiously based” economic beliefs.

We remain psychosomatic only because we have not properly understood the game in which we collectively gambled and must continue to gamble our futures in. We have been burned many times expecting an outcome that has no rational basis for expectation other than random chance since the factors considered and the perspectives in which we consider them were so limited and sometimes downright false or completely not justified. However when the true underlying force is revealed we are able to alleviate this sickness, not by treating the symptoms but by removing the root cause of the sickness-a false perspective mistakenly based on “beliefs” and not on logic or science.

Prohibition and regulation in many forms has become the solution in many short minded peoples’ and institutions’ eyes but not only does prohibition and regulatory control not work, they actually serve to create a centralization of power that perpetuates the harmful issues they supposedly seek to protect the general public from[14]. This eventually becomes instability that sets the stage for an inevitable massive immediate transfer of power and this naturally comes with its own significant social costs. Inevitably evolution finds its way but it can never be said that such regulations and controls helped expedite the process in a way that a freer flowing competitive market would[15].

Nick Szabo explains software, and our understanding of it, evolves from and through physical economic systems. We have sought to show the online gambling network inherently functions like a financial banking network and thus essentially creates its own currency that has its own stability function (ie interest rates and monetary supplies)[16]. In general it has been State’s function and purpose to continue to control and/or destabilize these financial networks but never to allow them to gain their own stability[17]. Bringing stability to our entire global financial network is and should be the primary goal of any serious and learned “economics” adviser or “financial planner”. Asymptotically Ideal Poker is aimed bringing about this exact stability in the poker world, and we believe this and asymptotically ideal money in the form of bitcoin or crypto-currency in general will bring this stability about in our global economy.

We have learned that the decentralization of ANY type of power or economic pooling of wealth allows us to “avert” the types of disastrous conditions that inevitably arise from centralization. It must also be suggested, in the long term view, a decentralized system will have necessarily reached (or at least trend towards) a Nash equilibrium since it must be known that the system will not tend towards centralization at some given point in the future (such uncertainly fuels instability opening the possibility for massive immediate shifts in “power”).

The missing link, if there can ever be said to be one, might simply have been for certain technological advances to evolve to a point where change is so rapid the effects of the general voter policy on decisions would be felt within the individual voters’ lifespan. This concept is to be coupled with the “voting population’s” average level of liquidity. A citizenry weak in game game theory is not a very democratic one. Well functioning “gambling systems” arise only from the good economic environment they reside in and they eventually result in intelligent or skilled voters[18]. We want the “players” to be “skillful” as “players” drive the security level of our society. This doesn’t pertain only to government democratic polls, but rather “voting” of all types, in all systems and fields.

This realization is set to fuel the next generation of technology based on the newly implemented discoveries of Nick Szabo encapsulated under the project entitled “bitcoin”. The “software” platform created by bitcoin will allow humanity to realize a vast amount of “game changing” and disruptive technologies set to redefine every aspect of our current daily lives. The costs saved and security gained from Nakamoto Consensus ID’s alone will be enough to completely dissolve nationalistic divisions that create and sustain much of the current economic and geopolitical wars. Once certain equilibriums have been reached, the decentralized exchanged markets will begin an asymptotic incline in the value of our economy we didn’t otherwise know or understand could possible come about[19]. This is gain shared by all citizens of this world and in the overall perspective of mankind’s history, the history of nations, or the history of government and institution, this change is set to happen overnight and before our very eyes.

In the future casinos might play a large part in the general public’s’ adoption of the Nakamoto Consensus decentralized ID system. By hyper facilitating travel around the world (and eventually beyond) with giant resort systems and destinations, privatized “Casino” mongols like Sheldon Adelson and Steve Wynn are likely to be the pioneers of the new projects that will secure and bring about this change[20].

Our example is a professional poker player traveling from resort to resort every few days, perhaps less than an hour or so from nation to nation or continent to continent, checking into travel stations, hotels, resorts, casinos, using automated payments all the way with crypto-currency, all decentralized and stored on the blockchain. This ID system is usable and accessible for law enforcement and for resort/travel security purpose yet remaining anonymous to the general public and those who have no business or purpose to access them (which also serves to restricts corrupt government and private or public use). Since individuals are meeting and crossing “checkpoints” with different levels of friends and network/social media contacts along the way, what then is the need for national “centralized” passports and ID’s?

In this the economic system of professional players or travelers (or both) that fills empty “off season” hotel rooms, games online, attends seminars and events, and spends their skilled winnings around the casino resorts that offers different prize packages and incentives exclusive to that particular room, resort, or account from online ventures. The value of the player/travelers comes in the efficiency gained by the infrastructure and advanced transportation networks created by the overall development[21]. Nations gain by the increased mobility of tourists and skilled persons that might otherwise not have traveled in the first place or at least not regularly to these previously “remote” destinations (point B) or the Nations or departures they might be now connected to (point A).

Because of this change, globally people will be more and more welcome to arrive in countries they wish to be in. We tend to fear localization because of this (exodus to previous, existing, or new homelands), but such a free market of travel would inspire a natural decentralization and equilibrium. We might not act with such a feeling of “scarcity of property” in this new world if we are free to travel and live anywhere anyways[22].

The social cost when done correctly is a “net positive”, so then the more important questions becomes what is the social benefit?

One next “step” will certainly be the extrapolation that we wish not to physically engage with other civilizations in the universe that are not at least this level of understanding. And that if we eventually did find such “inferior” beings we should only ever “secretly” attempt to help raise their level of knowledge appropriately OR not interfere at all. Simple realizations such as this really need the support of technological advancement (ie public space flight/tourism) to instantly affect not only our global consciousness but also the individual mind.

On the one hand we will soon be sending mass waves of humanity and machines out towards “the heavens” first towards mars, the moon, asteroids, and perhaps other planets and eventually beyond. We should expect and hope private entrepreneurs with a heavy stomach for skillful risk taking and gambling ventures of this sort will lead this charge. We should also expect privatized casino style ventures to ride and fund the frontier wave the entire way, paving the path for humanity to meet with whatever destiny awaits it however far away in time and space we might extend to[23].

Only with a planet full of highly skilled and praised game theorists can we afford and solve the risks of security and regulatory uncertainties that lay ahead of us[24]. In the overall picture defectors from the common norm of playing by the rules set by status quo become pioneers of new rules and new games evolved in new ever expanding frontiers. We want to be against immorality and crime, but it is never necessarily the gamblers of this world that are guilty of crimes by swaying popular opinion on issues or breaking through regulatory controls, but rather the regulators’ and controllers’ inability to realize what is a crime towards our fellow man, versus what is needed for advancement in the way of raising the average standard of living for everyone and every living being connected or connectable to our global (for now) economy.

On the other hand as we start to break our own religious beliefs and limiting beliefs we never knew we had, we gain a collective understanding of who we are as individuals and begin to collectively (but always also as individuals) ask many questions never collectively asked before. As different as we are all capable of growing to be, whether mentally or physically, technology has also allowed us to understand our similarities and helped us assimilate ourselves into a collective whole. Some call this the singularity. It is difficult for any mind to comprehend what it could possibly mean to be so advanced in both the physical and technological (ie Internet) worlds. But mankind has foreseen the merging of them, we understand the merging of them, and now it is but left for us to experience it-something the average human lifespan now predicts the average human will in fact likely live to experience.

The next frontiers[25] will be space travel and the merging of biology with technology and giant tycoons will want fund these things sometimes primarily with gambling and lottery and the peoples of the world should be happy to let them. Such projects gives philanthropic sorts the channels to support advancements of our civilization while funding the intellectual persons, who might not otherwise have a chance or opportunity to contributor to the advancement of our society, all while driving our security and freedoms to a level we might not have realized we didn’t have or could have.


TLDR elon musk gonna sell lotto tix to mars, and the first voyage is a death sentence. Nelson Rose wrote of the history of gambling the 1st to 3rd waves. I wrote the 4th and 5th.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 01:22 PM
The GFC was huge also, I'd say post 2008 people just became less ok with punting huge amounts of money, Guy Laliberté style. Way more of a thing than the crash of the dotcom bubble. Just look at how the great depression generation, people who actually were adults around that time, in the US or other countries hugely affected by it, behaved with things related to money and frivolous spending, compared with their sons and grandsons.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 01:25 PM
Humans are sooooo dumb, they either completely ignore the possibility bad things may happen and it´s better not to be completely irresponsible with money, or they act like the next depression is always around the corner, if they indeed faced one big crisis during their lifetimes.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 05:08 PM
The poker boom is happening as we speak but not as fierce as the moneymaker boom. It's fueled by everyone be able to fly again and no worry about covid, people who stayed home and watched youtube as well as stayed home with friends and family playing the game during covid. Thid boom isn't an all out online boom but more of a physical poker room boom with things like card rooms in texas and the desire to travel to casinos all over the world to play. Inflation also de-value-ing money so more 2/5 games and higher running than in 2018. Poker rooms were dying at that time. just my opinion
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 05:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FazendeiroBH
The GFC was huge also, I'd say post 2008 people just became less ok with punting huge amounts of money, Guy Laliberté style. Way more of a thing than the crash of the dotcom bubble. Just look at how the great depression generation, people who actually were adults around that time, in the US or other countries hugely affected by it, behaved with things related to money and frivolous spending, compared with their sons and grandsons.
What's interesting is a buddy of mine who is a bit older than me and can speak to it (I turned 18 a month before Black Friday) said that during the GFC the games were about as good as they had ever been, mostly because financial hardship can sometimes lead to problem gambling. A bit cynical, but that's what he said
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 06:27 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbouton
https://****************.wordpress.c.../the-4th-wave/

^^^ mods should unban the phrase 'the wealth of chips' its not a scary thing. Its just an ode to Adam Smith who was instrumental in our insights.

Poker, or gambling, already had a post moneymaker boom, a post friday wave boom. Ideal Poker and **************** forsaw the coming "Poker Currency" and the evolutions it might bring to the game and since then a whole new shadow industry has evolved. Much of they effects of digital currency payment networks hasn't been realized yet.. Poker is still very limited and controlled from the players perspective. It represents a world in which humans haven't attainted a level of basic and proper freedoms.

The original source code to bitcoin had a poker site baked into the code.
And Satoshi Dice a bitcoin gambling site was instrumental in its bootstrap. ...I wrote the 4th and 5th.
Sorry, there is no way any sane person would try and decipher (no pun intended) that wall of text.

That said, Satoshi Dice was a very simple, yet elegant gambling engine built to be powered by the BTC blockchain. They sponsored the first BTC conference I attended (and spoke to) about 13 years ago.

You and I have had some pm exchanges the last day or so, which were educational.

However, I think you have a solution in search of a problem.

There are many, many poker apps available that would allow a group of players to create a private game (for play money) and settle up on the side. Crypto only makes someone acting as banker easier. What those apps generally lack is a real network effect.

Many apps out there are way more approachable for poker players than building an understanding and community around cipher poker...... that is not to discredit the latter, its just a market-driven reality. (I really liked the 3D poker games my company launched in 2001, we even looked at placing everything in a 3D casino environment, like ReadyPlayerOne, but the market did not care for such feature, versus multi-tabling capacity...... however cool latter day gamers might have found it.)
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 10:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
Sorry, there is no way any sane person would try and decipher (no pun intended) that wall of text.
This pun was absolutely intended!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
You and I have had some pm exchanges the last day or so, which were educational.

However, I think you have a solution in search of a problem.

There are many, many poker apps available that would allow a group of players to create a private game (for play money) and settle up on the side. Crypto only makes someone acting as banker easier. What those apps generally lack is a real network effect.

Many apps out there are way more approachable for poker players than building an understanding and community around cipher poker...... that is not to discredit the latter, its just a market-driven reality. (I really liked the 3D poker games my company launched in 2001, we even looked at placing everything in a 3D casino environment, like ReadyPlayerOne, but the market did not care for such feature, versus multi-tabling capacity...... however cool latter day gamers might have found it.)
Obviously something that is to technically dry isn't for the average player to spin up. Its an infrastructure, its for sites to build on. It will take time yes but reason will lead humanity to it just like bitcoin. Bitcoin has no proprietary nature to it. Thats the similarity that no other poker project shares.

Having an app where players settle on the side doesn't allow for untrusted liquidity to gather behind. It doesn't' scale and as it tries to it creates a growing security leak for those that have control of the system to inflate the chips.

Cypherpoker creates a different paradigm. You complaints are about the limited offerings and solutions from the old paradigm. The network effect you are talking about in regard to attracting poker players to the net work is the problem poker site offerings face, cypherpoker is not a poker site offering.

Its the shuffling and dealing, gameflow, and settlement protocols fully secured and free.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 10:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MicroDonkYT
When Global Poker had easy PayPal deposits, there were multiple 2k tables running. If it was legalized fully throughout the USA with easy deposit options, there would definitely be a mini boom, like during covid. I don’t think it would be sustainable, though. Whales lose too quickly online.
Agree completely with this. But it would be nothing like the mid 2000s.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-23-2023 , 10:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by FazendeiroBH
Doesn´t fish love PLO? High variance games like PLO are good for the fish, are good for the sites (we know why), and it is still possible to have an edge and win. Maybe forcing an unsolved format (is this the case for PLO5?), or changing key rules etc, who knows). The sites insisting in keeping NLH going, instead of unilaterally killing it and forcing the regs to either play PLO or anygame else, or just GTFO, might also be the problem.

Unless there is a contradiction in what the sites say/used to say about the ecosystem, the insistence on keeping things unchanged to me is an indicative they really need regs, as much or even more than the recreationals. Bc it is the regs who are the most resistant to change, recs want to have fun.
nobody is forcing anything. i hate nl and love plo but rooms live and online spread what people want.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-24-2023 , 02:17 PM
Poker only boomed because it was new. It wont be new again in the west so it wont be another boom as big as the original one.

Poker could boom in other areas like India and South East Asia, but they dont really have enough capital to make a boom there interesting for westerners.

EDIT: and before some sherlock chimes in that poker is an old game, I mean new as in "available games for the masses" which internet provided.

Last edited by Kebabkungen; 09-24-2023 at 02:35 PM.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-25-2023 , 01:29 PM
A high flying economy where the general public has a lot of money.

For US players only, a fenced US pool without restrictions on deposits and they could just use their debit/credit card.

A poker format that isn't NLHE thats been studied to exhaustion.

Venture Capital and/or easy access to liquidity for growth of poker sites. All of the sites today just rake the game to death with little incentives like deposit bonuses, rake back, etc. Basically, there needs to be an operator on the market that tries to keep the game healthy.

Real answer: go back in time and have everyones knowledge be in the stone ages without solvers.

Basically, I don't think it will ever happen online. Honestly, live poker is kind of booming with an influx of younger content creators, streaming, etc. Online poker is just way to predatory and recreational players can just lose their money way to fast.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-25-2023 , 03:15 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by madchens123
A high flying economy where the general public has a lot of money.

For US players only, a fenced US pool without restrictions on deposits and they could just use their debit/credit card.

A poker format that isn't NLHE thats been studied to exhaustion.

Venture Capital and/or easy access to liquidity for growth of poker sites. All of the sites today just rake the game to death with little incentives like deposit bonuses, rake back, etc. Basically, there needs to be an operator on the market that tries to keep the game healthy.

Real answer: go back in time and have everyones knowledge be in the stone ages without solvers.

Basically, I don't think it will ever happen online. Honestly, live poker is kind of booming with an influx of younger content creators, streaming, etc. Online poker is just way to predatory and recreational players can just lose their money way to fast.
Yup.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-25-2023 , 05:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by 5thStreet
As with all things truly special, it's compounding factors that all acted on each other and would be impossible to duplicate again.

Hole card cameras, Moneymaker (and all relevant factors there), poker being extremely fresh in the public consciousness and this relatively new thing (because yeah, as weird as it is to say it, the internet was a 'relatively new thing' back in the early 00s), being able to play on the computer, via the information superhighway, for real money.

You'll never duplicate those conditions again, simply because you cannot.

One thing that has gotten basically zero talk in this discussion whenever it pops up- but is right there in the very tippy-top most relevant factors that drove the initial boom- was what ESPN did in 2003 with the production values of their televised poker coverage. Revisiting the old WSOPs via the PokerGo service makes it blindingly obvious, but hard to pick up on at the time.

Watch Pre-Moneymaker WSOPs and you see the ebb and flow of how many f**ks were given to televised poker at the time among TV top brass.
The early days, it was a quirky thing.
The Chris Marlowe/Chip Reese era and the green chutes of poker being taken seriously on TV, real high points like Ungar in 97, but it regressed pretty bad, until it was given no attention at all. One year it would be decent, the next year, an afterthought. For the nut low WSOP, see the 1999 airing of the Binions In-House produced, VHS only, Wilfred Brimley-Hosted coverage of Noel Furlong's win. It should be preserved as some sort of case-study in incredibly shitty television production, which was the WSOP on TV, a mere 4 years before Moneymaker.

For whatever reason, in 2003, someone at ESPN decided to put A-Team production talent on that years airing of the World Series of Poker... and it absolutely oozed from the end product. Totally ignoring the 'Moneymaker' byline, the $35 satellite, the name and just going on production value and format quality alone, what they did with the 2003 WSOP was very special and would've probably set off the poker boom, Moneymaker or not. It was that good, compared with productions of years ago, and dumped gas on an existing fire that had been showing rapid growth since Rounders.

I'll say it here again, though. The most underappreciated Y factor in the poker boom was the production quality and innovative formatting of the creatives at ESPN who made a decision to up the game on televised poker in 2002 and delivered something special the year later.

As someone who lived through that time period, this is spot on.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-25-2023 , 05:47 PM
I think now would be a great time for a sequel to Rounders.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-25-2023 , 07:59 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnnyDough
Nope. When you go on YouTube for poker videos and see Berkey with his backwards hat spewing terms like asymptotic merge betting, exploitative value call, seismic showdown value pivots, GTO 5 bet induce, and synergetic global ranges - that is precisely why poker will never ever boom again.
"spewing", truly an excellent word choice .....
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-27-2023 , 12:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by HomeStar
Something I can't believe no one has mentioned

It was pre-2008, and people were flush with cash. Not only that, getting the money online via credit card was incredibly easy. That all ended one fateful December night thanks to John Kyl, Bill Frist, and the UIGEA

Definitely a huge factor, along with everything else
Whenever we can do this on our phones with Apple Pay = another boom
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-27-2023 , 05:49 AM
One thing that could help spark interest is some Netflix series from the poker environment but I am not sure if that would be interesting to the masses
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-27-2023 , 08:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAcoaching
One thing that could help spark interest is some Netflix series from the poker environment but I am not sure if that would be interesting to the masses
I absolutely hated ESPN's original series TILT

but I have a confession to make.

I own the full DVD set.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-27-2023 , 08:34 AM
Quote:
For the nut low WSOP, see the 1999 airing of the Binions In-House produced, VHS only, Wilfred Brimley-Hosted coverage of Noel Furlong's win.
Speaking of VHS poker from the late 90s. This one was my favorite.



It's my opinion, this might be the most important non WSOP tournament in poker history.

Without this event, the World Poker Tour may have never happened.... This VHS tape looks like a pilot to what would later become the WPT, along all the hole cams, lights, exotic destinations, etc etc.

Spoiler:
Mike Sexton giving away the car at the end with Phil Hellmuth/Scotty Nguyen commentary and Doyle Brunson's banter was pure legend that most poker players know nothing about.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-27-2023 , 08:55 AM
Won't happen via hold'em - there's too much info and the ecosystem can't survive since new players get wiped off the planet too quickly.

Maybe if a new game comes along that's got a more luck/skill balance weighted to luck, and is fun, there's a hope for a brief surge before it dies out a bit. Saw this with chinese poker, saw it with the game with no cards below six, PLO is the standard bearer for this. Unless an ESPN decides to try to make one of those things "the thing" it won't happen.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
09-27-2023 , 01:30 PM
No, attention spans are shot now. Much more fun trading on robin hood or sht coins on Uniswap for 100x's.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
10-05-2023 , 02:34 PM
Get Taylor Swift on the Hustler stream and I think we’re in business


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Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
10-05-2023 , 02:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Juggalo
Get Taylor Swift on the Hustler stream and I think we’re in business


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More celeb endorsement would defo help. If knuckleheads like Rogan started talking about it it would see a mini surge.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
10-05-2023 , 09:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Juggalo
Get Taylor Swift on the Hustler stream and I think we’re in business


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For Sure!
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote
10-05-2023 , 10:46 PM
Not unless the easy days of using your credit card to put money on sites comes around again. Even then, I'm sure scores of people like me are really bored of the game and have moved on only to hit a card room maybe once or twice a year now. The last few times I've played cards, I didn't even last an hour. All the magic/fun is gone is for me, I'm sure it's the same for many others as well.

I don't see much hope from the young kids either, they're broke AF and that isn't changing any time soon.
Will Poker Ever Boom Again In The USA Like It Did In The Mid 2000s? Quote

      
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