Just wait until poker cheaters catch up to chess cheaters...

https://www.vice.com/en/article/5d3w...ng-to-find-out

Smart cheaters who aren't greedy are extremely dangerous.

The low angle card cam seems the easiest to implement and most threatening to fair play.

The easiest fix would be to require dealers to slide cards to players with the deck in a shoe. Training should be no issue as BJ and Roulette dealers use shoes ubiquitously. And there is no need to invent anything, the equipment is widely available.

100% agree with this and that is also the solution that Berkey suggested on the podcast. Too many ways to get cameras via jewelry or card protectors or any other device that someone will think of.

Heard that Commerce was a hot spot for this cheating ring.

Would some sort of coating, maybe reflective yet see through, be able to stop cameras from picking up the cards? I know there’s coating people can put on their license plates to evade speeding and red light cams. Not sure how full proof it is though.

Whatever technology is used on the cards would likely require some intellectual property rights compensation, i.e. a more expensive deck of cards.

Also, I suspect the cards would have a shorter shelf life, be more difficult to shuffle (as the cards would likely be thicker and/or heavier), and cause problems for some players seeing board cards.

And who knows, maybe software would be developed to read those cards too.

I heard she was wearing remote controlled panties.

Ooh yeah, J4. I'm feeling this one baby! I'm almost there! Keep betting! Ohhh yeah!

You're not the only one who gets lucky!

Giant magnets under the tables.

Showing that casinos are often in on the cheating. Give them their cut and they will not take steps to prevent cheating.

Although this is what seems sensible to jump to and think would help when told this story, it wouldnt actually solve or stop this type of cheating.

According to Berkey in the podcast the cameras are so tiny and microscopic they can be placed in or on anything and cannot be seen by the naked eye. There is a player who apparently had one in their ring on their finger. You cant make a "no rings" rule in a live poker tournament. You can place them in items of clothes, you cant strip everyone naked. The way to stop it is to train dealers to do the deal where the cards are kept face down actually on the table as they are given to players rather than pitched in the air.

Another takeaway from that pod was that the cheaters need to get seat 1 or 2 to get perfect information on the whole table. It would still work from any other seat but youd only get partial info/only know some of the other players cards. It has also apparently been rife everywhere for at least a couple of years.

FWIW the whole pod is here, very interesting stuff.

Even though I agree with everything you've said, just banning electronics would solve/stop a lot. A Mike Postle would never happen if he wasn't allowed on his phone while at the table. I understand it's an extreme example but I think at a bare minimum we should be banning any form of electronics use in the poker room, tournament area and the rail.

Want to check your phone? Go outside. Smokers have to do the same thing, go join them.

Banning electronics is tantamount to banning recreational players.

Disagree completely. Rec players just want a fair chance at winning at poker occasionally. The less they feel like they are up against GTO nerds and cheaters, the better. As long as the reasons for an electronic ban are clearly stated, recs will have no issues with it. Stepping back from the table to answer a call or send a text message would not be an issue in the overall grand scheme of things.

Couldn't disagree more. If anything I'd argue regs spend much more time on their phones than recs do and they likely wouldn't care if they had to get up off the table to check their phone.

Now consider the logistics of such a ban on phones with rail persons. Include a setting like WSOP at Horseshoe with hundreds of rail birds coming and going. You want those folks to come but if you don’t allow them with phones,

Cant speak for live poker players but i can tell you the average joe i see every day pretty much never puts his cell phone down.

Yes I would like to check my phone and wouldn’t play anywhere I couldn’t

Unless maybe last few tables of huge tournament or high stakes cash stream

I understand the logistics of such a ban suck but I'd like to avoid another situation where people run sims on the rail and people on final tables get to go to them and ask them questions about what to do.

It's obviously not easy but clearly we're being forced into a live poker scene where all electronics are banned or accept that cheating is now ''part of the game'' as we have ''accepted'' on many online sites.

Can speak for live. It's the average **** reg that is glued to his phone, where most recs enjoy socializing.

I would also like to check my phone whenever I feel like it but there seems to be so much cheating going on lately involving phones it's hard not to argue for banning the use of them at the poker table, at the very least.

Should've probably said ''step away from the table and no phones ON the table ever'' but the point still stands.

Sad to see you go boss.

Where am I going? No one is stupid enough to do the overreaction mass banning of phones at table except for the huge tourney or cash game

And there isn’t one group rec, reg, pro, fish that’s not addicted to their phones. No one wants to be grilled by dealer for checking a baseball score or text from wife or whatever

And no one is deathly afraid of being cheated by people on their phones

They should be.

We've got a bunch of threads made in the last few years of people cheating live games using their phones and apparently big gold rings but why should you fear being cheated?

Step away from the table. Seems like a fair compromise. Not a strong enough ban for me personally but it's something.

Ohh there’s been some threads….

But nah I don’t feel like stepping away from the table if I’m following a game or in a text conversation

The only compromise I would accept is someone having the ability to alert dealer/Floorman and requesting someone be on phone less or otherwise change their behavior but that could also be due to them being annoying or slowing down game.

Was just about to suggest that ... in high stakes or big events, the most likely targets for sophisticated scams, all players should have to put all electronic devices in a locker / go through metal detector. In other events, no phones or electronic devices allowed on the table, period. It must be kept in your bag or pocket, and only used if you step away from the table to answer while not in a hand. That should solve the problem.

Like I said. Sad to see you go. I’d rather upset a few stubborn people like yourself than to allow people to continue cheating.

But that’s just my opinion. I get yours is different.

I have been concerned for some time about any form of electronic cheating, obviously since Postle.

The comment about the "casino" being on the "take," is the most reasonable explanation but people seem to view it as hyperbolic. The response is always "why would the casino want to cheat a player?!?!." When someone say "casino," they really mean, someone inside the infrastructure of the "casino" that is willing to do something that will make them money, using a player that is in on the scam to obtain said money from the poker table.

Lets also not forget the now "antiquated" way of "potential" cheating can be easily established and carried out for a given seat to be awarded the pot using just the DM2 automatic shuffler and knowing how many players are being dealt in, regardless of cut. Something like microscopic ear pieces are not that advanced if you really consider it.

Edit: I will also say, if the poker room starts to look like the TSA line to hop on a flight, it will be a net loss for poker as a whole. It's tough not to consider this a lose/lose for LSNL. Legit casinos will never invest in the technology or surveillance to stop this cheating at the mid-low cash game level because the revenue is not there. I imagine HS events will adopt something.