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07-19-2011 , 02:58 PM
and then explain to me why durrrr owned all the old farts in HSP?
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07-19-2011 , 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by tme03
Age Demographics (thru 57 events):

- Average Age of Entrants: 37.33
- Average Age of Cashers: 36.31
- Average Age of Final Tables: 33.61
- Average Age of Winners: 31.10
is this where people would say lol sample size if the result was the opposite?

-young player
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07-19-2011 , 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by MSchu18
there is one reason and one reason only you think age has anything to do with it.(and age deosn't)

it's purely a number situation. it's the same reason men dominate women in the WSOP, there simply are not as many.

:/thread
You're partially right. There are far more of them, age has only a bit to do with it, but it's mostly because younger player, in general, are better because of their online experience. Also, it's not that there are far more men than women, it's that men, in general, for reasons I don't care to get deep into for this thread, are better at poker. Yes, they comprise only a small % of entrants in each field, but they also make a significantly, proportionately SMALLER % of cashes, final tables, and bracelets.

Main point, however, is that internet players in general are better, period, which obv also pierces the near-dead but still hanging on in spots thought that the internet is all rigged and internet players would get killed live without their HUDs.
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07-19-2011 , 03:26 PM
I dont have much to add to whatever has been said in this thread. In Poker one needs to have luck on his side to go deep in a tournament, playing good is of course a necessity to make any kind of deep run.

Its the cash games that requires real skills. Players like Phil Hellmuth have no right to say anything about how worthless online players are coz he sucks in cash games both online & live. I have see him making bets of $2k in $58k pot on the river hoping that other guy would fold or at least not raise him. He thought it would work as a blocking bet. Well if he played online in this way, people will bluff the **** out of him.
He slow plays flopped 2 pair till the river which bites him in the ass as other guy rivered a straight . He thinks he's trapping with AQ when he limps with it preflop. He is a cash game donk.

Look at Phil Ivey, which school is he from?He is the biggest winner online. I dont think anybody has won 19mill online. This goes to show that if you are good live, you are good online. You don't need to see people to read them(as Phil Hellmuth says).

Old school people should realize that NLHE has changed considerably over the last decade, It a tough game because people don't play only premium cards anymore. People are becoming better every day. Instead of complaining people should learn to deal with the reality---"some online players very good".

Last edited by ArchRival; 07-19-2011 at 03:33 PM.
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07-19-2011 , 03:32 PM
Average age of an entrant into this year's WSOP was 37.
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07-19-2011 , 03:34 PM
You get to play way more hands online, get into more difficult situations, etc. Plus there are more online players turning live trying for a piece of the WSOP cake.
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07-19-2011 , 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Alvin the Chipmunk
But players offline don't have their VPIP's printed on their shirts. You have to use instincts to figure that out.
Anybody with half a brain doesn't need a HUD to show player's VPIPs etc. when one-tabling live. People need HUDs online when multi-tabling 24 tables because it would be impossible to keep track of every other players tendencies without it. Also, the majority of online players use a HUD so you would be at a disadvantage if you didn't, whereas live everyone is on equal grounds without one.

It doesn't take "instincts" to figure out if a player is tight, loose, agressive, or passive, it just requires you to pay attention which is easy when you play a stupidly low number of hands/hour live.

I think the argument that online players can't play live without their HUDs is dumb, HUDs only let you mass table and still get the same information from your opponents as you would while one-tabling, they dont make your decisions for you.
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07-19-2011 , 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Vaswanicheck
Average age of an entrant into this year's WSOP was 37.
Senior's event filtered out?
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07-19-2011 , 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Alvin the Chipmunk
They are better ONLINE with their VPIPs and PFR statistics but all of the moves are the same. Blocking bets, donk bets, putting people on a range of hands, position. Same thing. If 10 people join a tournament, 9 African-Americans, and 1 Caucasian, of course, the African-Americans win most of the time.
i will take my chances with this line up.
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07-19-2011 , 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ArchRival
I dont have much to add to whatever has been said in this thread. In Poker one needs to have luck on his side to go deep in a tournament, playing good is of course a necessity to make any kind of deep run.

Its the cash games that requires real skills. Players like Phil Hellmuth have no right to say anything about how worthless online players are coz he sucks in cash games both online & live. I have see him making bets of $2k in $58k pot on the river hoping that other guy would fold or at least not raise him. He thought it would work as a blocking bet. Well if he played online in this way, people will bluff the **** out of him.
He slow plays flopped 2 pair till the river which bites him in the ass as other guy rivered a straight . He thinks he's trapping with AQ when he limps with it preflop. He is a cash game donk.

Look at Phil Ivey, which school is he from?He is the biggest winner online. I dont think anybody has won 19mill online. This goes to show that if you are good live, you are good online. You don't need to see people to read them(as Phil Hellmuth says).

Old school people should realize that NLHE has changed considerably over the last decade, It a tough game because people don't play only premium cards anymore. People are becoming better every day. Instead of complaining people should learn to deal with the reality---"some online players very good".
Bolded isn't close to true, actually, the reverse is.

Imo, out of 100 2BB/hr winners at live cash 5-10NL, maybe 5 or 10 of them could make $$$ at 2-4 online over 50k hands.

Take 100 2-4 2BB/100 winners at 2-4 online, and 98% will make $$$ over 1000 hours of live play at 5-10.
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07-19-2011 , 03:53 PM
Ah the ol' internet players are better then the live pros that were famous in teh early 2000s debate. Welcome to 2005 sir.
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07-19-2011 , 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by DeuceSeven
Ah the ol' internet players are better then the live pros that were famous in teh early 2000s debate. Welcome to 2005 sir.
Except no it is no longer a debate. It is settled.
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07-19-2011 , 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Daliman
Bolded isn't close to true, actually, the reverse is.

Imo, out of 100 2BB/hr winners at live cash 5-10NL, maybe 5 or 10 of them could make $$$ at 2-4 online over 50k hands.

Take 100 2-4 2BB/100 winners at 2-4 online, and 98% will make $$$ over 1000 hours of live play at 5-10.
I meant that if one is good at poker he's good.There are slight adjustments needed for online poker. If one make those adjustments,he'll be just fine.

But ya I totally agree with your point. I just think that online players play differently than live players and there is a different strategy to counter their play. Live players are not able to adjust to that yet.

Last edited by ArchRival; 07-19-2011 at 04:03 PM.
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07-19-2011 , 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Alvin the Chipmunk
But players offline don't have their VPIP's printed on their shirts. You have to use instincts to figure that out.
LOL WUT? How do instincts have anything to do with paying attention to how loose or tight your opponents are playing?
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07-19-2011 , 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by DA TRUF!
LOL WUT? How do instincts have anything to do with paying attention to how loose or tight your opponents are playing?
The instincts reminder you to keep paying attention. The WSOP is goes on for a really long time. The young internet players do fine for a couple hundred hours or though but without the instincts to back them up they forget to keep track of the game. The next thing you know they are 6betting all-in w/ A6 or calling 3-bets OOP w/ T3o.
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07-19-2011 , 04:24 PM
Something that I have not seen mentioned (or maybe?) is that the main event is way longer than it used to be. This makes going deep in the main event dependent on mental and physical stamina. Do older players do better in the other WSOP events where the field is smaller and doesn't go on for as long? Would be an interesting thing to look for imo.
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07-19-2011 , 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Lee van Cleef
Something that I have not seen mentioned (or maybe?) is that the main event is way longer than it used to be. This makes going deep in the main event dependent on mental and physical stamina. Do older players do better in the other WSOP events where the field is smaller and doesn't go on for as long? Would be an interesting thing to look for imo.
Yes. The main event has been becoming more and more a young man's game. Pretty sure the oldest person at least year's FT was like 31, and I think Dennis Phillips, at 53, is the oldest to make the final table since 2005, when the ME starting being 5k+ people.
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07-19-2011 , 04:34 PM
Younger people have less fear inside them.

Fear is the great destroyer. He who hesitates at poker has already lost the battle even as the war still rages.

Part of that is probably genetics, part is experience (life hasn't beaten them upside the head yet like it has for us older folk).

(Stamina plays a role here too as Lee stated above)
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07-19-2011 , 04:36 PM
Most of the old school players have already acknowledged that the young internet school of players is better than them at NL and PLO. DN, antonio, eli elezra, etc. Eli said it after he busted out that poker nowadays is much harder and that he learned a lot playing with the internet kids because they surely have mastered NLHE. Only the completely delusional (ex: Hellmuth) or the overly hubris (ex: Greenstein) argue otherwise.
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07-19-2011 , 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by tme03
Age Demographics (thru 57 events):

- Average Age of Entrants: 37.33
- Average Age of Cashers: 36.31
- Average Age of Final Tables: 33.61
- Average Age of Winners: 31.10
as dih mentioned, this is /thread
(except it needs a source)
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07-19-2011 , 04:38 PM
there are more young players nowadays because all the older players are going broke in the last 5 years and ppl don't want to back them anymore vs these tough young fields... it's not like all these older guys have died or something, lol
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07-19-2011 , 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Alvin the Chipmunk
. But the fact is a 5 person basketball team will always beat a 1 person basketball team, no matter what. This explains why the internet players are dominating the “Old School” in the WSOP Main Event.
Just thought I'd quote the most badly thought out analogy I have read in years.

Unless you mean all internet players collude.
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07-19-2011 , 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Chillypill
and then explain to me why durrrr owned all the old farts in HSP?
...yet failed when it came to the WSOP.
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07-19-2011 , 04:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Daliman
Yes. The main event has been becoming more and more a young man's game. Pretty sure the oldest person at least year's FT was like 31, and I think Dennis Phillips, at 53, is the oldest to make the final table since 2005, when the ME starting being 5k+ people.
Ray Rahme was 62 in 2007
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07-19-2011 , 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by boobies4me
Most of the old school players have already acknowledged that the young internet school of players is better than them at NL and PLO. DN, antonio, eli elezra, etc. Eli said it after he busted out that poker nowadays is much harder and that he learned a lot playing with the internet kids because they surely have mastered NLHE. Only the completely delusional (ex: Hellmuth) or the overly hubris (ex: Greenstein) argue otherwise.
link? i never thought he'd acknowledge this.
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