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07-19-2011 , 02:27 PM
OP, younger players have played more hands, have had better training and have played against tougher opponents. That's why they're better.

/Thread
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07-19-2011 , 02:28 PM
Was nice to see the old school players run so deep when there were so few of them. I mean Espo, Lindgren, Bach, Cunningham, and Elezra making the top 107 in a field where they are dominated internet player to old school pro should show that the old guys have not let the new kids pass them by too much

Last edited by ringsidebigbird; 07-19-2011 at 02:29 PM. Reason: 107 not 105
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07-19-2011 , 02:28 PM
i dont think its fair to credit any players skill level based on a single tourney result, you see 70% ******s making deep runs in MTTs & final tabling - agreed they rarely win, but they make it deep by making a series of sub optimal plays and coming out on top. if they had to play a decent sized sample of hands would go busto guaranteed. all that said i don't expect any old schoolers (Siedel+Negreanu excluded although both have made huge improvements to their games so don't really fit the description correctly) to be able to win vs good new schooler's over a large sample of cash hands / tournies period.
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07-19-2011 , 02:28 PM
Age Demographics (thru 57 events):

- Average Age of Entrants: 37.33
- Average Age of Cashers: 36.31
- Average Age of Final Tables: 33.61
- Average Age of Winners: 31.10
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07-19-2011 , 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by KlaSuu
OP, younger players have played more hands, have had better training and have played against tougher opponents. That's why they're better.

/Thread
But players offline don't have their VPIP's printed on their shirts. You have to use instincts to figure that out.
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07-19-2011 , 02:30 PM
Probably the same reason Why men cash more than women in the wsop..
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07-19-2011 , 02:30 PM
wait, this was a serious question?
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07-19-2011 , 02:30 PM
Well obviously there are more young players but come on, of course the young players are, on average, much stronger. Name any sport/activity/skill where the older generation is better. It's called evolution, guys. Younger people learn way faster, are more motivated, more open-minded, think more clearly, and are not as lazy. That is pretty much proven. And yea most older guys tend to be stuck in their ways regarding life in general. Wouldn't you be? I would have a hard time admitting I was wrong after believing something for 50 years (whether it's poker, politics, religion, etc..).
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07-19-2011 , 02:33 PM
Lemon party itt
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07-19-2011 , 02:33 PM
Who has a better chance of winning the group that plays way more hands and works hard analyzing their play, discussing strategy, and plugging leaks or the group that "goes with their gut", raises to "see where they're at, and doesn't understand basic fundamental strategy?
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07-19-2011 , 02:34 PM
they use math calculators ldo.
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07-19-2011 , 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by tme03
Age Demographics (thru 57 events):

- Average Age of Entrants: 37.33
- Average Age of Cashers: 36.31
- Average Age of Final Tables: 33.61
- Average Age of Winners: 31.10
Thread over.
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07-19-2011 , 02:37 PM
^^ This /Thread
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07-19-2011 , 02:37 PM
Now with the long break before the Novemeber 9 these young kids have time to visualize themselves winning the tournament. Before when there wasn't a big break they weren't able to. Now it's common to see kids in their early twenties taking down the main event.
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07-19-2011 , 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Popoff
Now with the long break before the Novemeber 9 these young kids have time to visualize themselves winning the tournament. Before when there wasn't a big break they weren't able to. Now it's common to see kids in their early twenties taking down the main event.
Phil Hellmuth was correct when he said this.
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07-19-2011 , 02:40 PM
Because there are more of them and they are better players.

/thread
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07-19-2011 , 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Alvin the Chipmunk
But players offline don't have their VPIP's printed on their shirts. You have to use instincts to figure that out.
I don't think you know what an instinct is.
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07-19-2011 , 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Popoff
Now with the long break before the Novemeber 9 these young kids have time to visualize themselves winning the tournament. Before when there wasn't a big break they weren't able to. Now it's common to see kids in their early twenties taking down the main event.
This is ****ing ******ed. Also, internet players are winning most events, not just the main, which gives a lot more data points anyway. So it falls painfully short of some kind of explanation.
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07-19-2011 , 02:43 PM
I'd be more interested in median ages than average ages.
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07-19-2011 , 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by DOG IS HEAD
This is ****ing ******ed. Also, internet players are winning most events, not just the main, which gives a lot more data points anyway. So it falls painfully short of some kind of explanation.
It's not ******ed. Hellmuth said it.

I don't think you understand the power of visualization.

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Hellmuth was raised in a middle-class Madison neighborhood. The entire family shared just one bathroom, where his mother had posted a sign on the mirror that read, "You are what you think. You become what you think. What you think becomes reality." Hellmuth said he read that sign every time he brushed his teeth or took a shower and was inspired by his mother's belief that he and his siblings could all achieve great things in life.
^ Hellmuth learned at an early age. How do you think he won 11 bracelets?
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07-19-2011 , 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Alvin the Chipmunk
But players offline don't have their VPIP's printed on their shirts. You have to use instincts to figure that out.
believe it or not, you don't need stats on people if you are going to be on-tabling them for hours on end. besides, even if you somehow were able to use a tracker, most players would be unknowns anyways. i am not sure why you would assume that a live player would be better att picking up the stats of other players. we are not exactly talking about subtle physical tells here, but rather noticing how often he raises, 3bets etc.
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07-19-2011 , 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Peter Popoff
It's not ******ed. Hellmuth said it.

I don't think you understand the power of visualization.



^ Hellmuth learned at an early age. How do you think he won 11 bracelets?
I can't tell if you're joking. Hellmuth won bracelets back when the field of WSOP events was a lot smaller (and obviously inherently weaker). He won his main event bracelet when there were 178 entrants. That's essentially equivalent to winning a 180 man online MTT. He's also probably played (and lost or mincashed) in way more WSOP events than most other people since he's been playing them since he was young. It's obviously more than luck, but he's not some kind of superhuman (and if he thinks that young players are winning because now they have months to visualize themselves winning... then he's just wrong).

Visualization has nothing to do with it. The break between the ME and the November FT not the reason why younger players are winning the main. Because they're not just winning the main. They're winning EVERY event.
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07-19-2011 , 02:51 PM
there is more of them, they are odds on favorites to win. how bout the 50 year old guy still in it...gogogogo.
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07-19-2011 , 02:52 PM
Yeah I'm just kidding. Hellmuth said it yesterday and it seemed like a good time to bring it up again. Obv stupid and an attempt to make himself look good by putting down young players who have won the ME recently.

The actual reasons have already been covered/
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07-19-2011 , 02:58 PM
Op, do you really think you're saying anything??? Obv, there are more online players and using the most basic concept of probability, yes that is one of the reasons online players dominate. You can't deny the fact that online players are better....
Online are better at adjusting due to the massive amount of hands played. They work hard to keep learning and trying to get better. They discuss hands and thoughts with each other, review hand histories, etc...
The older pros think they have it all figured out and are so obnoxious that they use excuses as to why online players are so successful.
Jason Mercier might be a better tournament player than any of the old pros. Look what he has accomplished in today's field.
Old pros aren't even coming close and were only successful versus the softer field prior to
2003.
Daniel Negreanu admits that online players are better and had some success in improving because he was humble enough to admit it.

Cash games may be a different story but do you think the old cash game pros stand a chance versus the online cash players? Hmmm, probably not considering they wouldn't even dare play in them....

Bottom line: online players > old live players in cash, tourney, women, life....
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