Bobbys room wouldnt be my requirement for the best players in the world. They are mainly there because they're good players & have huge rolls. Some only because of online sponsorship.


I could hand pick 10 players, most of which you've probably never heard of, that could beat any 10 online players

Drilled it. OP, please respond to this.

There's no doubt that the forums & internet provide tons of information on game theory that's relevant to online poker, but not always live poker as the math is different with live player flatting.

TJ cloutier is not an elite player. He's a good player that was well known when there weren't many people playing the game. He's not as hungry as he used to be & proably not as sharp with age. He's not an example of a top live elite player. Phil Ivey might be, but even phil isn't as good as most think

who do you all consider the best player on the planet? phil ivey.

everyone in the poker community, both live and online, considers ivey to be the best all around poker player by far. he crushes live in both cash and tournaments.

he also crushes online, and is the biggest winner in online poker history BY FAR. hes crushed everyone online in every game online. online LHE specialists like hoss and ihj have been decimated by ivey. hes crushed the HU specialists AND the 6 max specialists in rail heaven. 2 months 2 million? gtfo!!! they talked mad trash about ivey until he broke them and ruined their lives. emil aka whitelime has been quoted calling ivey a fish, until ivey broke him for every dollar he had and made him quit poker. phil galfond talked trash about ivey until he got raped and now he won't give him any action online.

ivey is a live player. a live player that is unanimously considered the best player ever, even by the online players. he doesn't know what EV is and doesn't use a HUD. he doesn't use ghey "new" poker terms, but he knows what they all are. it's intuitive for the great live players. he floats and 3 and 4 bets light. he makes plays considering fold equity and EV, he just doesn't use all these ghey names.

ivey >>>>>> any online player, in both live and online settings.

/thread

Except you had to pony up 10k against the best players around at the time. Not a lot different than the 50k this year I guess.

The first time Jungleman met Ivey in person, Ivey conceded to him that Jungle was the better NL and PLO player.

and why might he have done that?

I notice the OP disappeared after this statement and probably for good reason.

Sorry, but if you can't sit at a single live poker table getting maybe 30 hands an hour and keep track of everyone's VPIP/PFR/3bet to within a reasonable margin of error (it doesn't need to be exact anyway), you either need to find a new game to play, or stop watching episodes of I Bet You on your ipod while you play.

nice

Ill take you up on this...all we have to do now is get all 20 of them to agree to it.

Jungleman is an example of a great online player, but primarily at this point is running extremely good & has taken a new strategy , huge river bets that most players haven't adjusted to yet,

Over time he will run average or bad & players will begin to adjust to his play as it was something they hadn't seen before, I give him credit for what he's done so far. Overtime if he continues to play live with Ivey & some others they will eventually win his money

for a bunch of "math" players, the online crew certainly discounts the math in this thread...


shear number of lower age entrants guarantees lower overall age at final tables.

I know, you only apply math when it proves your point....

ye

Sorry but anyone that actually thinks old school live players are better overall collectively than the new school online players simply doesn't understand the fundamentals behind the difference. The simple fact is that online poker, by virtue of it being on the internet and electronic, allows for MANY MANY times more hands to be played. More hands = more data from which to analyze. More hands to analyze = faster evolution of the game and refining of strategies.

The live players are inferior not because they are less intelligent, but because they simply are not in an environment to keep up with the curve. It's like comparing 2 people both trying to get better at basketball, where one guy plays twice a month when he gets the free time, and another guy playing everyday because he has his own indoor gym. The fact that this is even in dispute by some people just goes to show why poker will be profitable for an extremely long time since the disparity between internet players and live players should be quite obvious to anyone who knows what to look for.

jungle is obv a sicko online, but has yet to have any decent live results. he relies completely on his HUD and without it he is nowhere near the force that he is online. if ivey played him in a live setting he would demolish the autistic jungleman without a doubt.

ps- aren't you the guy who took advantage of his "friend" ashman when he was in a shaky mental state and was banking on him hurting himself in order to make a bunch of money off of him?? classy move bro

The better comparision would be someone who practices every day, versus someone who is content with how he plays because he's been playing for X number of years and feels that he's figured the game out and doesn't need to improve anymore.

What you need for your comparision is a young player who plays live, but also reads 2p2 and other places but doesn't play online. If online poker in America is never "legalized", whatever that exactly means, maybe you'll get a few guys like that in a few years...and we can compare them to the "online" guys.

Flattiresuited, Your still talking about the avg live player. There's no doubt that online the math theory part of the game has excellerated the learning curve. The problem is that once a super intelligent person spends more than a couple of years learning the game , they are going to know 98% of the information available. The learning curve starts to stagnate, so you will end of with a bunch of players all knowing similar information playing against each other,, this leaves rake to eat them up.


To get past this they will have to elevate their game to the next level, the only way to do this is get beyond the fact that in live play there are many more variables to the game other than just math game theory that's used online. Like i said, the live games have never been better in history of poker if your an elite tell reading player.

+1

There's your basis

Most people highly overestimate the value of physical tells.

From what I can tell you seem to very highly overestimate the value of physical tells.

Lego, your wrong, It's the most underestimated part of the game bar noon, I'm glad most think that because that's where I get my edge, most don't even bother to look anymore, The amount of people that stopped watching physical tells because they couldn't figure out what to look for is unbelievable. they get frustrated because they can't figure it out. Obviously 99.5 % of players in this category including yourself. The small percentage that do far excel the other players, It's like when they say theres phil ivey & then theres everyone one else.

There is some truth to this, there are several players that I know that could murder any online player in a live game if the cards ran random. They will never give their secrets away because it's too valuable.

This proves nothing other than maybe older players 60-80 maybe do not have as sharp a mind and or can't make it through these long grinds in big tournies.


I was 31 when I finished 1st in the country in final tables. Most of my edge is beating online players by watching them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tme03
Age Demographics (thru 57 events):

- Average Age of Entrants: 37.33
- Average Age of Cashers: 36.31
- Average Age of Final Tables: 33.61
- Average Age of Winners: 31.10


This proves nothing other than maybe older players 60-80 maybe do not have as sharp a mind and or can't make it through these long grinds in big tournies.


I was 31 when I finished 1st in the country in final tables. Most of my edge is beating online players by watching them.

Ah .... I don't really believe any of this. The reasons are pretty much the same as what I posted in the similar thread that you started.


Also, was it actually necessary to add the condition "if the cards ran random"?

How do you know what daniel cates does live? Do you know where he plays/ how often he plays?
He could be in Bahrain rite now killing the million dollar buy-in games...

Do you really think hi stakes poker is only what we see on tv? please.

take this...

You don't have to be the best to win

:/thread