Probably at least a masters degree. Likely in STEM.

Just had to LOL at this link as ive never met one person in Asia who would agree with it. If he was talking about JUST Japan it could be true but everywhere else in Asia nope. Even then a nerdy guy white guy in Japan would be much better off as a nerdy white guy there then in the states for dating.

Not saying all girls are obsessed with white guys or anything their not thats not how it is. Its just if you're a average white guy you're dating prospects are way better by going to Asia then the states or wherever your from. I actually think the guy who writes the website would have alot easier time of finding girls if he wasnt always out in a group of 2-5 males trying to pick up girls. Also sounds like he spent his three years traveling in between a bunch of diff countries rather then staying in one or two and really learning the inns and outs so girls wouldnt think hes just a tourist.

As far as thread title clearly trying to get into poker now would be a -EV decision. Much better spending your time learning skills that are usefu in future. If you enjoy poker a ton then go for it but for sure keep working on other stuff as poker is not a life end game.

I heard back from my contact in Wan Chai. He wrote a 1200 word essay in response - some highlights.

Depending on the company you work at it is possible to make 6 digits and don't do that much everyday. Not at all companies. Google/amazon etc major brands you must work hard there. But if you work for like a small advertising agency as their main coder and they work for only a couple of major clients then you will just have days when there will not be much to do. Also in contrast to poker, if you have a bad day you can just cruise somehow and it will be fine from time to time and you still get paid the same. I have done both and pressure is a lot smaller in a normal job compared to poker.

I only skimmed through a few of the earlier thread posts near the beginning but the debate that a real job vs. playing poker is more/less variance is wrong.

There is def "some" variance irl like you can get fired/laid off at any time for an example so you can't really consider it to be totally stable er obv more stable then playing poker of course.

Is this the worst thread ever created on 2+2?

"You've become alienated. Not only have you renounced life, your interests, your duty ... not only have you renounced any goal apart from winning, you have renounced even your self." --Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Gambler

All such victory is Pyrrhic. And come 2016, for me, it wasn't even be Pyrrhic victory but outright defeat. Perhaps it was even Pyrrhic defeat; a defeat more horrible because no meaningful winning was ever possible. That's not good. So, I have an affinity for this thread. It was prescient for me. I awaken to this truth.

Yeah that quote sums up gambling addiction quite well. I've seen it first hand. Very close friend lost almost everything. Her marriage, her home, life savings, alienated her kids etc. But she's also one of the most kind caring people I know.

It's a little melodramatic though man. Yeah everyone has their dreams, very few get to live them, most of them are short lived. Doesn't mean you can't be happy doing something else, and it doesn't mean you can't still enjoy playing poker.

I agree that there's variance through getting fired / laid off but I'm not sure that's more common than breakeven stretches and downswings in poker. And for most regular jobs there's no equivalent of going on a downswing (negative cash flow). You're either employed (generally steady upswing) or unemployed (breakeven). So taking all that into consideration it's not unreasonable to say most jobs have less variance than poker. Obviously not zero, but less.

It is quite hard to fire anyone in Europe without a very good reason. If you get fired you usually get 3-6 months of salary. It is quite easy to find a similar job.

Yes, poker used to be mega good and lucrative that's why it made sense to not work and just grind 800$ hourly or so. But it is nothing right now compared to what it was a decade ago.

Was more relating to the point of working on your own of for yourself such as if you were an entrepreneur or etc.

And also there is variance in life similar to poker, and i never said playing poker was more stable then having a job which provides "stable" income in terms of hourly.

Exactly.

I would say anyone who can reliably go native>non-native is a Joseph Conrad-level bad***. It's gotta be pretty rare if you're looking for quality work.

More to the point, she probably wouldn't understand the job contract if it were written in Spanish and might not even understand the phrase "chalupa meal with a Pepsi", which, believe it or not, probably isn't a major issue.

You would be tempted to think high-level bilingualism would be rampant throughout the U.S., being one of the most culturally and linguistically diverse societies on the planet. Alas, the gods of biomechanics would disappoint you.

Without reading the thread. So sorry if this is in the middle of a discussion.


But in my opinion ONLINE poker is a fantastic hobby, but a ****ty career, for two reasons

A) It's a grind as a career, it is such a repetitive way to earn a living. Considering you have to be reasonable intelligent to earn a good living from playing full-time online poker. There is no way you couldn't be putting that intelligence to better use - to learn a skill/trade that gives you an equal (and honestly, for most people - a much higher) income. I guarantee that a job that requires a University degree, lots of training and constant shifts in the industry will be far more fulfilling than grinding 12 tables of poker every day - or sitting around waiting for your bum-hunting scripts to fire.


edit Also - not only can a learned skill be more rewarding, personally - almost certainly it will be more of a contribution to society, in general, than grinding online poker.

B) Earning a good living from poker has a moral cost. You can justify it to yourself anyway you like. But countless studies show that problem gamblers, like all addicts, have an issue with their brain's biochemistry. By bum-hunting this problematic gamblers at high stakes, you're contributing to severe issues within families, communities, etc - worst cases ending in suicides.

That said - I whole-heartedly support online Poker. I don't support House-edge games, online casinos and casino's and pokies in general. But I think poker is a great hobby, and if you get skilled enough to earn a little on the side at $10-$50 buyin ranges, then great - you're profiting off the entertainment of others. No biggie. But by taking money from unknown "recs" at $1,000+ stakes, you're no longer earning a crust off the entertainment of others, you're directly exploiting a mental health condition and contributing to serious; personal, within families, friends and communities. Even if you subscribe to the opinion that you don't believe the evidence backed science that these people have a brain-chemistry issue and it's just their personal choice. There is still a very real pragmatic argument; whether it's their choice, their broken brain or ANYTHING else. You're exploiting whatever it is, to the misery of the exploited, their friends, their family and their larger community.

And a final moral argument against online poker; many - and seriously A LOT of mid-level grinders - earning a living, but not in the public's eye - are paying NO taxes. This is a ****ing ****ty thing to do. Taxes are what makes our various countries function. If you're earning a living, you should be paying your ****ing dues to society.






After all that - I will say - I think playing LIVE poker and travelling the world and playing all the major live tournament events - I think that is a valid, interesting career choice. You get to travel the world, meet interesting people and play a game you love without destroying it by grinding it incessantly. Also - tournaments have been shown in very legitimate studies to have a VERY low impact on problem gamblers. Due to the nature of a tournament provide very drawn out action, not instant gratification like hypers, beat the clocks, Zoom, etc.

No human. You're just a bitter losing player who wishes he had the sweet life of a pro poker player. Work harder on your game bro. Taxes are theft anyway *posts outlier graph*

*sarcasm in case you are unsure*
*good post*


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It isn't about a gambling addiction. It's about an escape into another world where I am a winner addiction.

absolutely love this post

Haha that post was quite good really.

Your acting like medical studies have been conducted. I mean it makes sense only bc its drawn out, but what studies?

As for supporting a problem and causing suicide... I could say this about anything. Apples are apples, weak people are weak people.

The only thing that tournaments have going for them in respect to problem gamblers is that you get a lot of play for a fixed buy in.

I suppose luck plays a much larger factor too, so the fish don't feel as soul crushed.

funny, tilting and sad all wrapped into one. I wish I had known how much 25nl meant to a Ukrainian instead of playing midstakes+ with the same 4+ Ukrainians at every table some years ago. Definitely nothing shady going on there

programming is so much better than grinding (and I absolutely hate writing code lol). Programmers in a developing country def have the upper hand as well. As I said before a lot of companies are beginning to outsource their low tier work to eastern europe which is an obvious advantage. But the biggest advantage imo is that EVERY SINGLE COUNTRY in 2017 needs programmers. They are insanely valuable moving into the future. Companies in developing countries cannot outsource their top level work to usa because they can't pay enough for the best. So the programmers are in a sweet little bubble there and getting the best of both worlds at the moment. Yeah they wont be making 200k+, but they'll be making 50K+ and that can put to close to the top of the dog pile where you live.

Bump

So it's March 2018, over 2 years since the first post. Has anything changed since the beginning of 2016 that would make it a better/worse idea to become a poker pro?

china happend, besides that not so much

Yeah, online is more boring and games form around less weak players. I haven't played in a while but this was my observation over the last few years. Also, more rake more bots less recs and people have had two more years to study pio solver.

Being a pro seems fine if: you love live games and have access to good ones, you live in a country where ~25nl online can make you well off, or you are one of the best players at mid/high stakes online.

What do you mean by this?

Thanks for the analysis. You sum it up quite well.

Self-deception.