Sorry to hear this. How is she doing now?

Agreed, you can do things to “improve” your chances of staying healthy but ultimately our bodies are dying from the day we are born and it seems a lotto draw in avoiding cancer these days

So you take a bear or any other omnivore and only feed them plants. They will probably suffer from deteriorated health as well from malnutrition. You chose a bad example with your sister as she thought she was a herbivore when she isn't.

I'm not saying her health problem is from that but when you don't feed an animal what they've been eating for 100,000s of years then you have an easy case of malnutrition. Vegan is not what hominids eat historically.

Well, then Happy Birthday to You, sorry to hear you died a little more today.

This thread sure took a dark turn.

Yes, less talk about health insurance and more talk about why we don't see young guys rising the stakes in the way we used to.

Well that's certainly what you're implying lol

I didn't choose a bad example (nor is my sister unaware that humans are omnivores). It's very possible to get a level of nutrition that is more than adequate when following a vegan diet, if you're extremely disciplined and regimented (which my sister is).

I wasn't trying to say that eating vegan is automatically going to be healthier for you, but people who do eat vegan tend to be more health-conscious in general.

I'm not implying the heart thing is from bad nutrition, it could just be bad hardware from many different reasons.

Vegans also tend to suffer from malnutrition as it's hard to get the right proteins with only a plant diet. If you don't eat meat and other animal products your are denying exactly what you are, an animal that has evolved with an animal protein heavy diet. Saying they are more health conscious seems silly as many of them are going by more of a belief system than actual science of biological bodies.


It's my understanding that if hominids were vegan 1 million+ years ago we wouldn't have even been able to evolve our brains to the point that they are now. You need lots of protein for that intellectual muscle. We would just be another breed of dumb apes.

Does nutrition have something to do with gifted 18-21 years rising through the stakes? o.O

I feel a strange sense of Deja Vu.

Another NVG thread was recently overtaken by a derail on veganism. Must be a really hot topic these days.

However, it is not directly relevant to this thread and, alas, those types of discussions aren't really supposed to take place in NVG.

The veganism derail got so out of hand in the other thread that I threatened (and handed out) temp-bans for any posts on veganism subsequent to my "cease and desist" message. I hope I don't have to do the same thing here.

But I want to be clear. Discussions of veganism (pro, con, whatever) belong in other 2+2 forums and will not be allowed to continue in this (or any) NVG thread.

Sorry to be the bad man.

I think a huge part of it is the lack of visibility compared to years ago. No more poker shows on all the time, and also basically no TV ads for online poker. I remember seeing fulltilt/pokerstars ads on TV as a kid and wanting to be a poker player. I even got the 2005 WSOP poker game for playstation (they could've used the Libratus developers, that game was too easy). I was 10, and I wanted to play with the pros.

By the time I was 18 there were no more shows, no more ads. I had forgotten all about poker besides playing it with family or friends a couple times a year. If I hadn't had a roommate who played online I would've probably never gotten into it. I think poker could grow a lot (maybe not quite to peak levels) if big companies were incentivized to re enter the US market and create new content and advertising

Great post.

This is not a good post and highlights for me how badly wrong current serious players have it about their prospects outside poker

What if you enjoy your work? What if you build your own business based around what you enjoy/are good at? I’m just as happy at 830am Monday morning as Saturday morning. This mindset “it’s poker or flipping burgers and misery” is ruining lives. In today’s business situation/the unlimited opportunities the internet can provide us its moronic to look at poker as a career

Very interesting topic but I see very one sided views one some things. Everybody keep talking about how it's easier to make 100k in real world than in poker, how it is more profitable to do something else than poker... okay but what are those things? show me some ropes give me some ideas because my brain doesnt see opportunites even tho I keep reading alot and thinking of ways to come up, yet I haven't found anything.

before poker I sold drugs, stole and robbed people, on my probation I found poker and saw a way out, no, I never ranked up in the poker, but still made some money (I started post black friday anyway) and I saw a hope, hope that I can maybe turn it to something greater than 10-15k$/yearly wage (yea eastern euro here and thats average salary in a year here). If I would have the chances to go out and make 60k yearly like most of you here obviously I would have did that instead. I just don't see ways to make 60-130k year or even 200k. I make around 9-10k$ a year, and now poker has basically dead too, so I'm back in square one. I would gladly listen those ways "how you can easily make more than in poker in real world". what are those ways? back to crime? no thanks. go learn coding? cmon let's be real thats not for me. I really dont see anyways to make money legit.

Now the games are alot harder and I finally made it it up in my mind thats the dream is dead too, okay spins are the most profitable format right now and gladly im in a stable and beat low limits and I see some of the guys still making 10-30k EV in a month but it's still dead game and I rather look for new opportunites than try to study hard and grind, getting older too. Maybe live poker is still soft but still pretty much wrong path to chose. If I would really get serious with poker my way would be the unethical, get good AI software, collude, cheat etc, because where I come from and what I've been through made ma whole another breed, I dont care about ethics I care about profits but I choose not do put my hopes in dying game. So dear members, what are those "super fun, easy, more profitable" things to do, basically only way I found is internet marketing, affiliate business and social media marketing, and im just getting into it and it doesnt seem as fun as to play poker tho.

And to say few words about healthcare, you USA guys are unlucky, here where I live, you can basically just ask a friend who owns company to register you as a worker "pay" min wage to you, you give him around 250$ a month for the taxes he pay to government and you have free healthcare, like everything free. I've had 4 operations and countless hospital hours and all for free. the second way is to earn atleast 500$ a month as a worker and boom, free healthcare again that compensates everthing, and 3rd one is register as unemployed again 6 months totally free healthcare.. so the healthcare part here is super easy, but well everything else not so.

Poker will never come back, probably the last profitable format is MTT's and currently spins, cash games is so pointless, everybody so good and obviously alot of botting and GTO softwares. Live would be the only thing to play but the games running up to 5/10 and you would move to, barcelona, vienna, rozvadov or london in europe or vegas, LA, florida in US. and those super mega highstakes is all about politics, some crusher nerdy low social skills guys would never stand a chance to get in those games, you need to be a good salesman and probably best way to get in those games if you are a crusher like OTB whose name nobody IRL knows is to fly over there and act as some crypto millionaire looking for a highest games, basically you have to be a great con man to seem as a fish to get into these games and that is doable only for a low percentage of guys who can pull these cons off but probbaly if you got that skillset you lack the poker knowledge to make that money to play in those games. what i learned as a hustler is a super good social skills and decieving people, pulling cons, acting, manipulating etc, I really love psychology and how some people have basically ****ty "firewall" and you can manipulate those people, but it takes some kind of a natural talent plus trying different things out and learning **** loads about human mind and psychology.

dunno for cash games - they seem quite unbeatable vs all the eastern bot assisted pros....

but with mtts there are still a lot of new stars, all the young german high roller stars plus online crushers like BenCB, European.......

So you are saying nl100+ grinder makes over 360k per year. I don’t buy it.

lol

Humble beast, you're taking it out of context.

They're saying people WHO CAN MAKE THAT MUCH PLAYING POKER would likely make similar or more elsewhere with a better lifestyle. By your own admission, you don't have a high set of skills and thus likely won't make much more (unless you learn new skills/put in a ton of work outside of your normal job).

I'm not saying this to be rude but for you to understand that not everybody gets to make 50k+/year as if well-paying jobs are just handed out at the candy store. Furthermore, if everybody who makes less clings to the idea of wanting more their entire lives it will hurt their ability to simply enjoy what they have and be happy. That's not to say you shouldn't have goals for improvement, but not fantasize of it to the point of your own detriment.

this is a massive derail tho lmao so ganna leave it at that, glgl

50k+/yr jobs sort of are handed out like candy to anyone with any degree of intelligence. Any trade pays that much. There are many associate degrees that pay 45k starting. And of course there are many bachelor+ degrees that pay that much starting.

I hate saying this word, but there's so much entitlement in poker. Guys think they deserve to make 50k or 100k at a ****ing game just because they watched some 6 part bet fold training series. The world doesn't work that way.

That said, I still believe someone can make a lot of money playing poker, but they have to be very good at other games and be willing to move around.

I've made $50K in a year delivering pizzas.

I think a lot of people would still choose making $50K with poker.

Wut.

I am not sure where you are getting these 50k numbers but in Germany the average wage is about 3000€(gross). Thats 36k€ a year and about 44k$. And Germany is not a poor country.

If poker skill isn't realized until the long run, then how can short term results (just a few years for an 18 year old player) showcase talent? What we see mostly is variance in action: Isildur running from micro to nosebleeds, huge crash and burns by former 'great' players, etc. The difference between then and now is there was a whole lot of totally dead money flying around then and there isn't anymore, so std. devs and variance is way more constrained than it used to be, and big skill differences way less likely to exist by the time someone is 18. Poker is almost all luck in the short run; looking at lifetime winnings of people who have been playing for millions of hands is the only way to tell if someone is actually a winner, not by how fast they move from micro to nosebleeds (and then lose it all). In that sense I would say that nanonoko was almost certainly a strong winning player in his day, and he was even doubly smart because no one knew about him until very late in the boom. If you do have an edge, you'd be a complete idiot to bring attention to yourself for it. Similarly, those douchebags who thought it was a good idea to make a little extra side-cash from coaching and running training sites? Ya those guys proved themselves to be doubly ******ed. Why in the hell would you destroy your own game? You can shear a sheep a million times and skin him only once. Well these guys taught the sheep how to be wolves. Now you can join a training site, practice mimicry, and don't even need to think about the game at all. You just run by a HUD and slightly lose like everyone else and the poker sites are the ones with the biggest bb/100. Tl;dr, the best players have always been the ones you've never heard of.

how the efff did you make 50k/year delivering pizzas? pizza is code for drugs right?

People like to look at averages so they can blame someone else for their shortcomings or make excuses to why they're lazy/ don't work smart enough. Do you think I'm just pulling these numbers out of my ass? Go to bls.gov... those numbers are just averages too.

You go where the money is, not where your ****ing heart/ passion is... JUST LIKE POKER.

This may come as a huge surprise, but some people actually life happier and more fulfilling lives when they chase their passion and not materialism. Crazy concept to you clearly.

They obviously aren't if they're bitching about only making 3xxx a month and dreaming about "going pro" so they can leave it all behind. They want to be lazy and do the minimum amount of work and then they ***** and blame other people. Does that sound like happiness to you?

I'm not saying pick a job you absolutely hate. Choose something you excel at and then chase the money from there.

The majority of people put in the minimum amount of work and think if they just wait in line long enough they'll be noticed or promoted or the big salary will fall in their lap. The real world doesn't work that way. You have to go get and blow everyone else out of the water in terms of work ethic / hustle.