What if I'm a US player who - with online and live play combined (starting at $1/2 casino games as a first time live player) - cleared $250k in a 12 month period within the next few years? Still pretty gifted? Because that's a great goal for me to set for myself then.

You have your own pgc which explains your specific situation and goals. Being unemployed, playing poker all day, and relying on poker for your income... what would you call that? A "PROFESSIONAL POKER PLAYER"

Fwiw I have no ill will towards you. If you want to live your life that way then go for it. What you've failed to miss (despite being a self proclaimed genius lol) is that your situation while extreme, is not too dissimilar from other "poker pros". That's why I pointed it out, nothing more. I'm not trying to single you out or whatever other bull**** you claim.

There's a disconnect between what a normal joe thinks about professional poker and what professional poker players lives are actually like. An average joe looking at someone who's barely surviving through poker would most definitely think they have mental issues / degeneracy for putting themselves through hell when there are countless opportunities outside of gambling/poker.

Yeah, a guy who has to travel outside of the country to play in high variance games that don't run 24/7 has a losing year over a small sample is no longer a professional. Please, can you inform us how many millions of dollars you made from poker, the name of your very successful training site, and when your online poker site is going live?

Also, can we hear more about how good Blitz is at poker? Maybe you convince him to come play WPN HU some more, I'm sure he'd crush all those "pros"!

Self-delusion seems to be a common trait with a lot of these guys sadly.

I claim to be unemployed. I hit a jackpot, I'm clearly not a pro poker player. No one would say that about me looking about my situation and I'm not so delusional to think otherwise.

You haven't added anything to this thread except vitriol but I imagine you see it differently. You sound bitter about not being able to make it as a pro. Did someone sell you a false promise or a false dream of getting rich through poker? Tell us more about yourself and your poker career please. Also what does your personal and professional life look like right now? Do you think you would have been better off without poker?

The reality is that games have gotten tougher in 2018. There are still plenty of people who can beat these games for six figures or more consistently, but the amounts that can be won and the numbers who can do it are smaller. Fewer younger players get into the game and for those that do fewer still will make it as professional poker players then before. Players who might have been marginal winners before (like bumpnrun and upswinging) and probably fantasized about being poker pros during that time can no longer beat the game and are now apparently very bitter about that development.

/thread

imo you're one of these people. confirmed 5/10 crusher

I haven't played much poker since Black Friday and haven't visited 2+2, either. But in recent months, I hit up the live games and came back here to see what's new.

The irony is not lost on me. But I do think people are generally being pretty introspective and fair with their assessments. With PTR gone it's hard to say where people stand, but there are very few names I recognize and sadly enough - at least on HSDB - it seems that a lot of winning pros gave back what they earned and sometimes more. I see lots of graphs of respected players who got to 500k+ and then gave it back even faster and I wonder what their story is. Ouch.

By this point in my life, if there is anything I learned is that there is Early Money and there is Hard Money. Realistically, we all know where poker fits in.

Still, I like the sort of person poker attracts and I like the community. If you want to pursue poker, don't get stuck here and don't get stuck listening to people who sell you stuff and GTO dreams. Find other players locally and try new things. (Local games, casino, new game types, etc.)

Good post but just because good players leave the game doesn't mean it happened because they can't win long term. Some realise the lifestyle doesn't suit them anymore. Some get sick of the game. Some want to try new things. Some, especially in recent years, realise that the amount of work they need to put in to keep winning is time better spent in another direction especially when you factor in future earning potential.

Out of interest, what do you think those regs are doing differently from all the other thousands of "good online cash regs" who have come and gone?

Good post by the way. Gives a decent perspective from someone who actually grinds full time for a number of years.

Some of your post might belong in the Internet Poker rigged thread, and most of it belongs in a politics forum, but I'm not sure if ours would want it.

None of it belongs in this thread.

It's because they don't show Rounders enough on tv. Air it more and they will follow.

Also, make online poker legal and easy to set up in the US. Bring the masses back.

Double also, and/or make Rounders 2: Euro-Rounders into a movie already.

A movie about Russian/Ukranian nit bots grinding out a meager living whilst multi-tabling micro stakes would be more realistic, but probably less inspiring, to the masses.

Average yearly income in Russia: 8.781€, in Ukraine:2.087€. Even playing Micros for a living must be quite tempting in these countries. So "meager living" considering local standards is far from true.

LOL WAT? Don't know where you got those figures from buddy.

Right on the money. And you can add Broadwaysushi to that little list

But hey, keep spending your precious time on a poker forum to let all the poker players know that they are wasting their lives lol.

the russian number is off, they make around 500 a month.
Ukraine is at 200-250 a month.
(avarage)

https://www.laenderdaten.info/durchs...seinkommen.php

Here.....buddy

The fact that you and rich are so defensive means there's some truth on a personal level that you're not comfortable with. I was half expecting you to come in and say "this is more or less right but I'm on top right now i love the game so idgaf".

Instead I see claims that many people are making a very good living playing no limit and that anyone can do it, with absolutely no proof. It's almost as absurd as the beliefs some years ago that thousands of players were making SNE and 10/20 pros were all millionaires.

I can't speak for bump, but my posts were directed at anyone on the rails considering quitting poker or considering hopping into poker full time. Which in a way serves your own self interests in keeping the games as soft as possible.

I agree with DC, I think poker is still a viable option but it's not easy and you gotta have a gifted mind and a passion for poker, not just NLHE. If you look at what the crushers were doing before the NLHE boom you'd find they were playing all the games. Now that nlhe isn't as popular they're back to playing all the games.

Another reason why we don't see as many 18-21s making it in poker is that those new generations aren't as tough as the older ones, most of those kids are raised with internet already and society has become way more ******ed recently. Back in the day everyone loved terminator, wanted to be john connor and a pokemon master.

But ofc poker is way tougher, as it's expected to be, since its "science" developed a ton since 2004, so the required amount of knowledge to play at a high level is capped as much higher as in the old times. I've heard about stories where people made fortunes by setmining people who wouldn't fold an overpair lol.

Quite honestly, if I was an 'up and comer' then I would probably rather people DID NOT know who I was. Anonymity, to the extent it exists, would be a far better thing for the player in multiple ways. This holds true no matter whether someone was playing live or online.

I never got the whole 'looking up to' someone just because they were an athlete or celebrity. As far as poker players go, it is fine to look at particular players who are successful and figure out whether parts of their game work for the individual. But the hero worship does nobody any good...

Another straw man argument. Please provide examples of me being "so defensive". You have made straw man arguments and ad hominem attacks ITT. Lol you are the one getting all emotional and defensive dude. Which means there must be some truth to the statement:

You come across as very bitter ITT. No one is advocating for anyone else to "go pro".

Please provide the quote where someone ITT said "Anyone can make a very good living playing NLHE". Because again you just make straw man arguments. You defeat your straw man, stand back, and want us all to applaud you....

At this point plenty of people have checked out your pgc and have concluded: you're a degen with mental issues, unemployed, living in your car and trying to live out a poker pro fantasy. Whatever you have to say about anything poker or life is just lol.

Maybe instead of arguing over the Internet you should be improving your life situation. Bump and others have given plenty of advice and I've also given pointers for long term poker success.

Studying and grinding NLHE in 2018 is the same as studying a dead language. It serves no purpose other than mental masterbation.

TBF, a guy living out of his car probably shouldn't be advising anyone about anything, but Poker is not Latin by any stretch of the imagination. The "poker is dead" argument has been going on since before I started playing (2011), yet the games are still there and people are still terrible. For a very select few being a full time pro makes sense. For 99% of people playing they would be better served to work on their career irl and grind on the side.

This thread isn't about being a poker pro or not anyway, it's about why we don't see young kids coming up anymore. It has been pointed out over and over that there is indeed still young kids coming up in poker, most people just don't know who they are because poker sites aren't handing out free money to anyone that will take it anymore. The biggest winner I know of on American sites is 22 and has played for less than 3 years, no one knows who he is and he likes it that way. Why would someone want to go on about how much they are making if there is no incentive for them to do so like there was before?

Every single one of these threads devolves into a back and forth about whether you should go pro or not. There isn't a right answer to that as everyone has a different situation. I personally wouldn't play poker as my only income for an extended period of time, but I also have a family and the ability to get a 6 figure job. That isn't to say I don't play 20-30 hours a week still and I definitely would if America had regulated poker.

Btw, bump is one of the all time worst posters on 2+2. Literally every post is how poker is a dead end yet here he/she is posting every day on a poker forum.

I guess but I'm talking about consistently. But specifically what is your plan to make that money online. We are definitely looking at 70+ hours of play a week and you must play plo 10/20 on bovada and every site available of course.

It's a goal but how can you reach it in America.