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Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker?

10-09-2023 , 01:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fossilkid93
There was another player in that WSOP ME named Kris Moneyloser, thank god that guy didn't win!

But seriously, I'm in the camp that thinks it was 98% the hole card cam + ESPN's increased production value and 2% Moneymaker. If MM had somehow won in 2002 with that boring ass coverage, no one would have cared. Likewise, no matter who won in 2003, poker was about to explode.
I lean towards this. Moneymaker absolutely helped but poker was going to explode even if he didn't win.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-09-2023 , 05:02 PM
His last name is Smith. Moneymaker was a nickname
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-09-2023 , 06:13 PM
Yeah, his last name was MONEYMAKER.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-09-2023 , 07:12 PM
It’s because he is an all merican man. An everyman. And the myriad of other reasons named.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-10-2023 , 08:34 AM
I think Chris Money Makers influence is a bit over exaggerated.

Poker really started taking off when everybody got broadband in their house and then everyone could start playing online.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-10-2023 , 10:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maximus122
I think Chris Money Makers influence is a bit over exaggerated.

Poker really started taking off when everybody got broadband in their house and then everyone could start playing online.
But why would they have played? Moneymaker (and Farha). Ok, it could have been built around other persons as well. I'm prepared though to give the boom an one year faster start and a higher peak just because of the big M.

Last edited by plaaynde; 10-10-2023 at 10:08 AM.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-10-2023 , 11:01 AM
99.999999% hole card camera
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-10-2023 , 11:19 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defarse
99.999999% hole card camera
80% imo. Maybe as low as 60% when taking into account the online aspect. Maybe 70% for hole card cameras as a compromise. But they were essential for having almost anything at all regarding poker and the big picture. ITT we are discussing 10-20%. Also important, and it's interesting to speculate a bit, the human aspect.

But poker always had potential. You can win money by playing, not by pure luck, but by skill. Poker being a good game is of course the foundation. Holdem would have become popular, almost no matter what.

Last edited by plaaynde; 10-10-2023 at 11:40 AM.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-10-2023 , 12:47 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
But why would they have played? Moneymaker (and Farha). Ok, it could have been built around other persons as well. I'm prepared though to give the boom an one year faster start and a higher peak just because of the big M.
In countries outside of America you don't have ESPN, so a lot of Europeans have never even heard of Chris Moneymaker.

I got introduced to poker in first year of university through a poker society and an Irish sportsbook called Boyle Poker sponsored one of the events and I started to give online poker a try. Boyle Poker had freerolls on there which were a huge draw for new players. First would get a hundred bucks, second 50 bucks and third 25 euros.

I then remember seeing advertisements on television for Party Poker. I think that drew a lot of new players into the game.

Then later on Poker After Dark would be on an Irish channel called Setanta Sports and during the commercials there would be advertisements for Full Tilt Poker. That ushered in the celebrity poker player Ivey, Gus Hansen etc which brought poker on to another level again.

Then Black Friday came and it ruined the party.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-10-2023 , 01:29 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by plaaynde
But they were essential for having almost anything at all regarding poker and the big picture.
Yes, essential........like 99.999999999%
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-11-2023 , 05:33 PM
Because the 2002 WSOP coverage (like all poker coverage pre WPT) was poor quality and not a product that was conducive to generating an interest in the game.

The influence that Chris Moneymaker's win had on the explosion of poker was pretty minimal IMO. Poker was going to boom regardless due to online poker, and 442 productions making poker an interesting thing to watch for once. If Varkonyi won in 2003, it would have been called the "Varkonyi effect"
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 12:30 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by agoo758
If Varkonyi won in 2003, it would have been called the "Varkonyi effect"
Yeah I think that's true. But we got lucky there as Moneymaker was definitely a better catalyst. Much more likable person with a great story. Better player. And the fact that he won his seat in an online satellite was a huge marketing tool.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 09:01 AM
I actually think it is because Varkoni too closely resembled Kessler
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 12:12 PM
Everything was taken to the next level between 2002 and 2003. Production value is a huge one. But also the advertising and prevalence. Pokerstars pumped a ton of money into the Moneymaker effect. Suddenly ads were everywhere. Before Moneymaker even won they were advertising how he satellited in and were pushing that "anyone can do it" advertising, literally during the broadcast.

They turned that isolated story into a broad narrative and kicked off the online poker bubble
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 12:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coordi
Everything was taken to the next level between 2002 and 2003. Production value is a huge one. But also the advertising and prevalence. Pokerstars pumped a ton of money into the Moneymaker effect. Suddenly ads were everywhere. Before Moneymaker even won they were advertising how he satellited in and were pushing that "anyone can do it" advertising, literally during the broadcast.

They turned that isolated story into a broad narrative and kicked off the online poker bubble
They already knew he won before they showed he won. That's why he got pushed.

I think Chris was the perfect guy to win and help poker but it was going to pop anyway.

But he is a great poker ambassador.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 12:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by coordi
Before Moneymaker even won they were advertising how he satellited in and were pushing that "anyone can do it" advertising, literally during the broadcast.
Before he won? These were post-produced episodes.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 12:57 PM
Discussed earlier.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/s...68&postcount=9

History should judge that the production values of the 2003 WSOP- and not "Moneymaker"- were responsible for the boom.
Watch the Noel Furlong year with Wilfred Brimley to see just how ridiculously bad the production of televised poker could get... a mere few years earlier.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 01:49 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Defarse
Before he won? These were post-produced episodes.
20 years ago was a long time
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 02:11 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleRick
WPT on the Travel Channel is what introduced me to poker in Spring of 2003.
To paraphrase Homer Simpson, "You mean they put internet poker on computers, now ? "

After the first WPT broadcast, Party's numbers exploded .... same for UB when its turn came.

I was talking with my then-partners about getting our brand onto the Travel Channel, was told that a a season 1 exclusive sponsorship had been available pre-season for the entire season for $100,000.

Without telling me, my majority partners, who had bankrolled the our lainch launch, and could have written a check on the spot when pitched by the WPT, instead had turned the WPT down. We were able to buy spots on local stations in certain markets, each of which yielded a tremendous ROI for the money.

Last edited by Gzesh; 10-12-2023 at 02:20 PM.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-12-2023 , 02:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gzesh
To paraphrase Homer Simpson, "You mean they put internet poker on computers, now ? "

After the first WPT broadcast, Party's numbers exploded .... same for UB when its turn came.

I was talking with my then-partners about getting our brand onto the Travel Channel, was told that a a season 1 exclusive sponsorship had been available pre-season for the entire season for $100,000.

Without telling me, my majority partners, who had bankrolled the our lainch launch, and could have written a check on the spot when pitched by the WPT, instead had turned the WPT down. We were able to buy spots on local stations in certain markets, each of which yielded a tremendous ROI for the money.
Any idea what season 2 would have costed?
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-13-2023 , 11:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ULTRAAAA
Everyone knows Chris Moneymaker won the 2003 WSOP Main Event and launched the poker boom of the mid 2000s. Chris showed the world that a regular guy who was not a top pro poker player could defeat the best players and win the Main Event. Moneymaker is a legend. But just one year earlier in the 2002 WSOP Main Event another amateur poker player, Robert Varkonyi, did the same thing as Moneymaker. He defeated the top pros and won the Main Event. And nobody really cared. No poker boom was started and almost nobody remembers him.

So why was the Moneymaker win such a catalyst even though Varkonyi did the same thing the previous year?

TV coverage

and

hole card cameras

and

internet poker
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote
10-14-2023 , 04:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by borg23
Any idea what season 2 would have costed?
Don't recall to be honest.

My brand did continue to buy spots on shows in various markets on a per show basis.
Why Didn't Varkonyi Have The Same Effect As Moneymaker? Quote

      
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