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Old 10-24-2017, 08:19 AM   #1
generalerr0r
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Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

That's what I would like to know. I mean, is anybody here satisfied with eWallets? Every single one of them sucks ass. Their security is a disaster and don't even get me started on transaction fees.

In live poker it's the same. Whenever I bust in a cashgame and want to rebuy, but I don't have enough cash (which is gonna be illegal soon anyway), I need to go downstairs to the cashier and wait in line there, missing a good 3-4 hands everytime.

Many high profile poker players already invest in crypto, so why aren't online poker sites and casinos more accepting of cryptocurrencies? Is it because they are volatile? Is it because of regulatory issues? Or is there another reason?
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:34 AM   #2
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

I wouldnt be surprised they accept it in 2018
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:37 AM   #3
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

not really into crypto, but if the tables are $, it might be a high risk for operators since due to price fluctuation. might be also some regulatory issues, but this is just a guess
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Old 10-24-2017, 08:44 AM   #4
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

How would that work, that you deposit with bitcoins or similar and they instantly change it to dollars (in a secure bank account); you still will have just bitcoins but they avoid the volatility risk?

Disclaimer: I am an idiot and don't know anything about anything, less so of bitcoins.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:07 AM   #5
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

A lot of them do afaik. From what I understand you don't wanna play in cryptos or keep your money in cryptos for too long unless you know what you are doing as they aren't as stable as fiat atm. My main site lets you deposit/withdrawal with cryptos but you play in $, day to day there's is just to much fluctuation in their value at least that's what I've read in threads about cryptocurrency on this site.


I'm sure someone that is actually educated on this will show up and enlighten us all.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:11 AM   #6
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

America's cardroom accepts 60 different crypto currencies.
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Old 10-24-2017, 09:39 AM   #7
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

The OP seems to make the point that the ewallets - professionals in payment processing - do a ****ty job (according to whatever his metrics are) of handling cryptocurrencies.

If that's the case, why would an organisation focused on providing online poker services be better than an organisation focused on payment processing?

In much the same way that the skills you learn at a poker table with cards are not very transferable to running an online poker business, the skills in running an online poker business do not always transfer very easily to running a payments business. Payment processing is hard, the business is very competitive, and although there are certainly some folks who have made the transition from poker to payments (eg, muchbetter.com) the things that the OP is talking about are incoherent, nonsensical and generally not very well considered.
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Old 10-24-2017, 10:03 AM   #8
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by pucmo View Post
How would that work, that you deposit with bitcoins or similar and they instantly change it to dollars (in a secure bank account); you still will have just bitcoins but they avoid the volatility risk?
if they transfer all crypto to $, they need another party plus they would have the same fees, like the 'standard' deposit
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Old 10-24-2017, 12:48 PM   #9
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Companies operating on a thin margin (i.e. poker sites) aren't going to be interested in holding onto a volatile currency or treating it as an investment (speculatively), so it's just a matter of their payment processors accepting and converting crypto.

I imagine payment processors are reluctant to get into it because of rules set up to snuff out money laundering (which I admittedly know nothing about). There may be a risk that funds can be confiscated with the processor holding the bag if some law enforcement agency determines they were proceeds of illegal activity.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:11 PM   #10
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyDufresne2 View Post
Companies operating on a thin margin (i.e. poker sites) aren't going to be interested in holding onto a volatile currency or treating it as an investment (speculatively), so it's just a matter of their payment processors accepting and converting crypto.

I imagine payment processors are reluctant to get into it because of rules set up to snuff out money laundering (which I admittedly know nothing about). There may be a risk that funds can be confiscated with the processor holding the bag if some law enforcement agency determines they were proceeds of illegal activity.
Well, US facing sites would seem to have the most to risk and all of them accept at least some crypto currencies (and tons in the case of ACR), so i don't think that his is accurate.
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:13 PM   #11
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by AndyDufresne2 View Post
Companies operating on a thin margin (i.e. poker sites) aren't going to be interested in holding onto a volatile currency or treating it as an investment (speculatively), so it's just a matter of their payment processors accepting and converting crypto.

I imagine payment processors are reluctant to get into it because of rules set up to snuff out money laundering (which I admittedly know nothing about). There may be a risk that funds can be confiscated with the processor holding the bag if some law enforcement agency determines they were proceeds of illegal activity.
Poker sites have thin margins now? I have seen 1000s of company their annual reports and Pokerstars its EBITDA margin would probably be in the top 5 highest.



I could be totally wrong but the true answer probably is because crypto currencies are not an attractive alternative for payment processing for businesses and present a huge amount of risks for companies, both in terms of currency volatility and potential for laundering activities. Combine that with the amount of risks online poker already faces and it is a recipe for disaster.

As long as those risks (exchange volatility/compliance) can't be mitigated I don't think crypto currencies will become massively used by businesses any time soon. Companies that already offer it probably just see it as a calculated risk to increase their business but I am not convinced that in 99% of markets this would result in significant increase in business. It is not a more attractive method to pay for stuff at all, except for non-standard transactions that are challenging using normal payment methods (long distance, rare currencies, shady stuff,...). Poker might be in the 1% that could significantly increase its business through offering crypto currencies though . Have poker sites become more risk averse after all the **** of the past years?

(I do think it is likely blockchain technology will become heavily used by businesses for other purposes.)
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:18 PM   #12
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by A_Schupick View Post
Well, US facing sites would seem to have the most to risk and all of them accept at least some crypto currencies (and tons in the case of ACR), so i don't think that his is accurate.
If it's only US facing sites that offer crypto currencies, it's likely because one (or both) of these?
*US facing sites are clearly very tolerant of risks to begin with
*For US players depositing in crypto currencies is an attractive method compared to the alternatives
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:19 PM   #13
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

There are services out there like BitPay that will instantly exchange BTC payment for fiat so companies wont be exposed to the price volatility. KYC/ALM regulations are most likely why party/stars/888 aren't accepting cryptos. These sites might be allowed to do it right now, but it could create problems down the road since it's kind of a grey area right now I think
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Old 10-24-2017, 01:44 PM   #14
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

There is no global status quo for crypto's yet which i think makes the situation a little grey for the traditional sites. Its seen as an asset in Switzerland (crypto valley), a security in the states and China wants no part in it whatsoever. For these bigger sites to operate via crypto internationally there needs to be some linearity between countries policies. Give it time but for now its still catching fire.
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:23 PM   #15
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

They are. Just not the ones you know about.

http://www.*************.com
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:50 PM   #16
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

All those quoting price volatility, bitcoin's value has grown 50,000% in the last 5 years. I'm not sure how you see that as a problem. Volatility in this regard is also quite easy to fix technically which many emerging projects are doing.

Poker around the world is heavily controlled by payment processing restrictions and regulatory controls because its historically been used to launder and for capital flight.

Bitcoin/crypto is a no brainier, except the legacy models don't have the capability to adapt quickly to adopt it. They are falling behind.
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:58 PM   #17
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
Poker around the world is heavily controlled by payment processing restrictions and regulatory controls because its historically been used to launder and for capital flight.
How can cryptocurrency be regulated to prevent these bad uses?
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Old 10-24-2017, 02:59 PM   #18
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency? Because cryptocurrencies are either unregulated cyberscam ponzi schemes, or undergoing a massive unsupported bubble, or both.
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Old 10-24-2017, 03:52 PM   #19
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

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Originally Posted by bbfg View Post
If it's only US facing sites that offer crypto currencies, it's likely because one (or both) of these?
*US facing sites are clearly very tolerant of risks to begin with
*For US players depositing in crypto currencies is an attractive method compared to the alternatives
the unregulated (er illegal) US facing sites probably accept crypto because they can and nobody regulating them to tell them they cant. it is agruably a superior method for player and operator.

Legal / Regulated US facing sites dont accept because its not allowed in the same way Crypto not accepted in land based casinos.

Spoke recently to one of the most informed persons I know of regarding all facets of US Casino regulatory and he mentioned that State gaming commissions have not really even begun to talk seriously (or even non seriously) about any sort regulatory standards for crypto.

In their collective minds " crypto is for drug smugglers and money launderers" stigma is alive and well.

Dont see anything happen in US for quite some time. take that all with a grain of salt... everything subject to a phone call.... your mileage may vary.


I'd suspect regulated jurisdictions in Euro will lead the way. I tyink Gzech posted an article in some other thread about some emerging crypto standards out of Malta.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:04 PM   #20
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
All those quoting price volatility, bitcoin's value has grown 50,000% in the last 5 years. I'm not sure how you see that as a problem. Volatility in this regard is also quite easy to fix technically which many emerging projects are doing.

Poker around the world is heavily controlled by payment processing restrictions and regulatory controls because its historically been used to launder and for capital flight.

Bitcoin/crypto is a no brainier, except the legacy models don't have the capability to adapt quickly to adopt it. They are falling behind.
Regarding volatility: Of course this is a huge issue. This is fixed with normal currencies using a huge amount of different financial products and services that allow companies to control the risks related to multi-currency transactions. As far as I know, the current offer of these products crypto currencies is very weak. Your statement "but it has gone up 50.000% how can it be a risk?" either lacks understanding of basics concepts regarding risk or shows that you do not have an objective view on the matter.

Regarding regulatory controls: It is true that gambling in general is heavily regulated, but it is entirely possible that specific regulation regarding crypto currency will be pushed down to other industries as well. All it takes is a negative event or a government proceeding with strict regulation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BDHarrison View Post
How can cryptocurrency be regulated to prevent these bad uses?
In theory it could be possible to regulate this within the blockchain technology I think... But it would be complex and would require cooperation/recognition from various international bodies including USA, UN, EU,... . It likely is an impossible task at this stage, and imo the fact that it is not there will prevent it to ever become large enough that would allow for all necessary stuff to be implemented.

The easiest solution would be if crypto currencies are integrated within the existing banking system, but I guess that would be contradictory with some of crypto currency its key characteristics.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:09 PM   #21
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

isnt volatility a non issue?

Couldn't a site immediately convert any crypto deposit into their desired currency at the exact or near exact price they take crypto deposit, thus eliminating forex type risk. Then do exact opposite for any crypto withdrawals.

im dumb about this so might be missing something but dont see how volatility would be an issue for operator .
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:12 PM   #22
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
the unregulated (er illegal) US facing sites probably accept crypto because they can and nobody regulating them to tell them they cant. it is agruably a superior method for player and operator.

Legal / Regulated US facing sites dont accept because its not allowed in the same way Crypto not accepted in land based casinos.

Spoke recently to one of the most informed persons I know of regarding all facets of US Casino regulatory and he mentioned that State gaming commissions have not really even begun to talk seriously (or even non seriously) about any sort regulatory standards for crypto.

In their collective minds " crypto is for drug smugglers and money launderers" stigma is alive and well.

Dont see anything happen in US for quite some time. take that all with a grain of salt... everything subject to a phone call.... your mileage may vary.


I'd suspect regulated jurisdictions in Euro will lead the way. I tyink Gzech posted an article in some other thread about some emerging crypto standards out of Malta.
Did a quick Google, likely this article? https://www.coindesk.com/maltas-gove...atory-sandbox/

Seems to be in very early stages. At any rate a real economy setting up a regulatory framework for the technology will be an essential step for crypto currencies their future. Will be very interesting to follow/see what comes out of this.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:20 PM   #23
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by PTLou View Post
isnt volatility a non issue?

Couldn't a site immediately convert any crypto deposit into their desired currency at the exact or near exact price they take crypto deposit, thus eliminating forex type risk. Then do exact opposite for any crypto withdrawals.

im dumb about this so might be missing something but dont see how volatility would be an issue for operator .
You are correct, there are many technical solutions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfg View Post
Regarding volatility: Of course this is a huge issue.
You are not correct.

Quote:
Your statement "but it has gone up 50.000% how can it be a risk?" either lacks understanding of basics concepts regarding risk or shows that you do not have an objective view on the matter.
Your quotations are surrounding a sentence I didn't type/post.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:27 PM   #24
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bbfg View Post
In theory it could be possible to regulate this within the blockchain technology I think... But it would be complex and would require cooperation/recognition from various international bodies including USA, UN, EU,... . It likely is an impossible task at this stage, and imo the fact that it is not there will prevent it to ever become large enough that would allow for all necessary stuff to be implemented.

The easiest solution would be if crypto currencies are integrated within the existing banking system, but I guess that would be contradictory with some of crypto currency its key characteristics.
For some people, the key characteristic is security. Maybe it would be possible to supply that with a government-backed cryptocurrency. For other people, the key characteristic is anonymity. I'm not sure that we should be catering to those people.
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Old 10-24-2017, 04:42 PM   #25
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Re: Why aren't poker sites accepting cryptocurrency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooseknot View Post
You are correct, there are many technical solutions.


You are not correct.


Your quotations are surrounding a sentence I didn't type/post.
Do you acknowledge that doing transactions in crypto currency creates risk? If the correct services & products exists that allow to fully mitigate this risk, please show them to me?
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