I thought you weren't coming back after yesterday? Oh well, just wishful thinking I guess....

I've lived in the Panorama Towers since Feb 2008 and it has changed quite a bit. I was renting a mid-level 2400sf penthouse from a comedian who made his debut in the train scene of "Trading Places" starring Eddie Murphy. The value of the unit at the time was $1.44m. After about a year of living in the unit, the landlord stopped paying his mortgage and we began receiving Notices of Trustee Sale on the door. After a few months of this, I decided to reach out to the bank and make an offer.

The bank accepted my offer of $800,000, except that it took them 6 months to do so, and the market had take a dive since then. I quietly backed out of my offer, got a new appraisal, and made a new offer, this time for $565,000.

Same story, the bank accepted my offer again, and again, it took them 6 months to do so, and again, the market had dropped even further. I went through the same procedure and hired another appraiser, then decided to offer below appraisal at $430,000. The bank declined, but made a counteroffer at $480,000 and it only took them a month this time. We inked the deal in August of 2010 and my unit has recently appraised at $920,000.

Having lived here for about 7 years now, I've seen just about everything. I do really enjoy the presence of other poker players, though I never realized how quirky of people most poker players seem to be, especially the most successful ones. I was a video gamer when I was young, mainly NES, SNES, N64, etc but I never knew that just about every poker player in Panorama Towers also plays other strategic games like Chess, Magic the Gathering, Werewolves, Monopoly, etc. Oh, and they're almost all willing to get on these games.

Anyways, I'm getting off track. I guess my point here is that I truly enjoy the location that I live in at Panorama Towers, but with respect to the HOA and overall management, we could use some help. There are several key things that have been just plain mismanaged. I won't go into detail here on a public forum, but this place definitely needs a few fresh pairs of eyes.

If you're considering buying into the Panorama Towers, I would say now is a good time. You're not buying into an investment per se, but if you live here you'll be saving on rent money and I strongly think that the values are going to increase again soon. Why? Because the Wanderlei Silva fight gym next door is being bulldozed and a brand new Heritage Inn is being built. I've seen the plans and they look great. It will be a lot more appealing to look at than an old beat up parking lot full of MMA fighters pushing huge tires around, thats for sure.

If you guys wanna know more about Panorama, feel free to AMA. I think overall its a great place to live, so long as you stay out of the HOA's crosshairs.

So, what you're saying is that the place is filled with video gamers and kids who are at odds with the adults in the HOA? Sounds like Midsummer Night's Dream by Shakespeare. Maybe they have that in video game form? I am not sure why building some cheap Heritage Inn next to a residential condo high rise would raise property values. How many stories is it? Care to explain?

Renting is less expensive than owning at the Panorama and most other towers on or along the Strip. HOA dues in those places are super high, and you add the taxes to that and you're paying more than a mortgage. You can rent a place using a pocket listing from a resident realtor for around $1500 a month. Rent using an online application, and you're around $2200 a month for a 2BR. HOA dues and taxes can reach $!500 a month alone. That's insane dude! I'd wait for another year and see how it goes. If the HOA sucks as much as you say it does, your dues are not going down. Better to save the cash on a purchase and rent. Your comments don't seem to be coming from a savvy poker player.

Now, from what I'm reading about all the stippers and ho's living there with you, I'd certainly give renting a whirl. If it doesn't work out, you can just walk away from the hand. You can't really fold on a purchase, dude. You might end up like the landlord you are telling us about.

Tell us more about the strippers and ho's. Who cares about buying a condo!

Literally never heard an HOA described that way.

living here and confirmed 10x as many hookers/strippers as video gaming nerds.

You got that right. Its called sarcasm.

Sweet!

welcome to vegas, newbie

I live in a highrise tower on the strip, I've lived here for close to a decade now. Initially renting, then I bought. My unit would rent out for around 2,200/month at this stage, without going into actual numbers I can assure you that my mortgage + HOA is less than the amount I would have to pay to rent this unit.

The bottom dropped out on strip high rises because most of the units were bought by speculators looking to flip. When everyone in a building is trying to sell at the same time it does not bode well... fast forward 6 years, this problem has been eradicated in my building, and from what I understand is almost solved at Pano as well. The market is a lot stronger now, real estate investments are safer than what they used to be. With that said, I am still concerned that we will see another drop - but if we do I predict it will not be as bad as 2007.

I'll bite then: Give me a listing for a hypothetical mortgage, 25% down (you're not going to get a traditional mortgage there, if you can get one at all), where the mortgage plus HOA dues plus taxes and electricity are less than $2200 a month for a two bedroom condo. The asking prices are pretty high now relative to rental. nearly 50 condos for sale there now. Maybe three might fit your criterion. At the bottom, sure, you did well. I'd love to know which tower you refer to.

From what i see, it is cheaper to rent than buy, and you're not locked into an illiquid property with a ton of cash sunk in as dead money. Better to own a home, but a home isn't on the strip.

imo

So, I'm intrigued by AdioKing, who kinda reopened this thread. I am in town for this gig, and I'm looking around while Im here. He said this

If you guys wanna know more about Panorama, feel free to AMA. I think overall its a great place to live, so long as you stay out of the HOA's crosshairs.

How can anyone stay out of the HOA's crosshairs? If the HOA is a nightmare, you're screwed. As a potential buyer, I want to hear the HOA is neutral at best. Renters do not have to deal with the same slave-ship or indentured owner crap you get as an owner in a condo HOA situation.

What is the problem with the HOA, AdioKing?

Renting is only better than buying short term. Long term, buying is pretty much always better.

If you buy, you start building equity. Can't do that renting. The market will fluctuate, as it is wont to do, but the general trend will pretty much be up for both renting and buying.

The difference is when renting, your rate will go up pretty much every year. Your mortgage payment doesn't really increase (taxes from one year to the next may change a bit, but you're paying those through rent anyway, same with HOA type fees).

After 5 years your mortgage payment will often times be significantly lower than what current market rental rates are. If for some reason it is not, refinancing your mortgage is an option (dependent on interest rates of course).

Property values in many places have recovered from the slump if 08/09, and in some cases are even above where they were at. Hell I bought a home 4 years ago, and have about $50,000 equity and as soon as the basement is finished (it almost is) I'll be adding about another $100,000 to that equity ($15,000-$20,000 spent on finishing it).

Granted you don't get that sort of easy way to bump your equity with a condo, but over a 5-10 year timespan, you're still ahead of the game in most scenarios buying over renting.

If your house was a unit at Panorama you'd also have $40,000 less cash in your bank account because you gave that money to the HoA. Do you have 40k cash in your bank account? Most Americans don't. Its not so great of a deal then.

I looked long and hard about buying at panorama, but didn't bite. Firstly there's no universe where buying at Panorama made more sense then buying at The Martin, which was originally supposed to be tower 3 of panorama.

I hear it's much better built (can someone in panorama tower 1 tell me about noise between units?) and the hoa fees were MUCH lower then Panorama. Which they took great delight in pointing out.

The only negatives were that there weren't as many strip view units due to the building orientation, and that by the time I got around to buying they'd become quite pricey.

I think the full balcony strip view unit I wanted on about the 21st floor was over 650k, no negotiation. So passed.

Bought a house off strip instead and am actually very pleased with it, apart from high hoa also (500 a month).

HAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA!

This is probably true if you don't have to pay any interest on a loan and don't have to pay any closing costs, transfer tax, realtor fees on the buy and sell. Even then it's not a guarantee.

Wait, how is there HOA on a house? In some sort of gated community or something?

Please move thread to Real Estate for Dummies Forum

Curious to learn what you think an HOA is.

What is HOA?

Home owners association. You basically pay a fee for all the community expenses. Ex. Landscaping, community janitorial stuff, front desk, door man, and a bunch of other crap.

Usually the biggest ripoff in real estate

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renting is the play here.

banks are less likely to lend for these types of condos. buying condo in tourist town like Vegas or Miami versus buying other home/r.e. purchases, is like buying options versus buying stocks. The risk/reward is greater and typically attracts more speculative investors and it's often a small part of that investor's larger portfolio. Because of this, a high percentage of condo developments in towns like these end up becoming investor owned (i.e. vacant). This is theoretically not good for the long term value and the banks don't like it at all. With the destabilized value it can be like buying a sand castle.

Often the developer is the only one to win in the end. (Trump,etc)

FWIW - HOA are not a ripoff, you are just choosing to pay someone else to maintain aspects of a property, particularly common areas (cut the grass, maintain elevators, etc) Most new developments, even of single family homes, have HOA fees. Personally, I'll take my ranch and I'll fix the fence myself, but we each have our own preferences. Not many poker players like mowing the lawn as much as I do.

thread has gone full ridic.

1) answer to rent vs buy is IT DEPENDS. so arguing without details is futile.

2) has nothing to do with Poker.

well the OP was apparently spamming anyway, so i'm not sure our discussing the investment quality of the panorama in NVG is going to ruin anyone's life.